News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Gib_Papazian

"It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« on: October 08, 2021, 03:07:51 PM »
We spend a lot of time in the Treehouse, arguing minutiae - whether PV is better than Augusta (it is) or all manner of hair-splitting nonsense only fanboys and get-a-life's would find the bandwidth to consider.


But how about golf courses of reasonable reputation or note you absolutely hated. Everything from the routing, to the bunker aesthetic, to the pacing were an aggravating bore. The only thing uglier than the green complexes was the cart girl with inflatable spandex, peddling warm Budweiser and stale crisps.


The kind of golf course where the patio was calling you at the turn - but you only continue out of perverse curiosity to see if the golf course could possibly get any more vapid.


My USA and 'Cross the Pond winners of the "Rather eat glass than go play it again" are:


Atlantic GC & Troon.


So which courses do you absolutely hate - and why?


       
« Last Edit: October 10, 2021, 11:36:39 AM by Gib Papazian »

Sean_A

  • Total Karma: -2
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2021, 03:24:27 PM »
Hate is a strong word for concensus greats. I was unimpressed by Lytham. Oakland Hills did nothing for me until reaching the greens...pleased about the renovation.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

JMEvensky

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2021, 03:51:29 PM »
Spanish Bay--hated everything about it, including the bagpipes. The only upside was that I wasn't paying, and it still wasn't worth it.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2021, 04:07:38 PM »
Would I be wrong to say this discussion should be focused more on the clubs in any individual city rather than the classics?


I have had a few recent experiences at well regarded club courses where I felt the urge to play may have been created by the maintenance, ambiance, and reputation of the club more than what I focus on, i.e., the design of the course itself. 


A situation like everyone from out of town wanting to play Olympic the most due to its tournament history when in reality SFGC is about twice the course is seemingly played out in nearly every city in America, no? 


In this group, and probably started by the Confidential Guide, many would start looking for undiscovered gems to reverse that trend, i.e., in Chicago Shoreacres vs. Medinah, Butler, and other more famous courses.  But then, it becomes a "must play" and in many cases, those unsung gems don't measure up quite as well, because now, THEY are the courses a certain segment of knowledgeable golfers ascribe greatness to.


Short version, it's all in the perception going in.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tommy Williamsen

  • Total Karma: 2
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2021, 04:12:12 PM »
Hate is a strong word for concensus greats. I was unimpressed by Lytham. Oakland Hills did nothing for me until reaching the greens...pleased about the renovation.

Ciao


Sean, you should get back to OH. It turned out very well.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Rob Marshall

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2021, 08:58:13 PM »
I thought the Ocean Course was overrated. It just did nothing for me. I was underwhelmed. My expectations I think were just too high. I’m sure I just missed something but it seemed like every hole was the same to me. It was probably 15 years ago. The greatness must have gone over my head.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Jerry Kluger

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2021, 10:40:51 PM »
If you haven't noticed, Ran does not post reviews of courses that he did not like so why should we engage in such a discussion? Sure, we can make whatever points we think are relevant to a discussion concerning a course but I don't think it is within the character of this site to discuss a course solely to criticize it.

Niall C

  • Total Karma: -1
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2021, 03:16:29 AM »
If you haven't noticed, Ran does not post reviews of courses that he did not like so why should we engage in such a discussion? Sure, we can make whatever points we think are relevant to a discussion concerning a course but I don't think it is within the character of this site to discuss a course solely to criticize it.


Nonsense. There have been plenty of similar threads so this one is entirely in keeping with the character of the site.


Gib


I can understand why you say that about Troon and in a way your view is nearer the consensus view although the perception of Troon is changing. Personally I think its a great course although I've yet to see a cart girl of any shape, size or looks.


Off hand I can't think of any "great" course that I would comprehensively slate but will give it some thought.


Niall

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2021, 03:53:31 AM »
Ballybunion Championship didn’t impress me. Reckon it would have once upon a time but now too lush and manicured. No longer a proper firm, bouncy links more a hybrid-parkland without trees. Liked the Cashen though. If only the Championship  course were prepped like it.

Atb

Mike Wagner

  • Total Karma: -11
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2021, 12:07:50 PM »
Spanish Bay
7 Canyons


Tied for award of best pieces of property (views) with the worst course.

Bruce Katona

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2021, 01:01:16 PM »
Mike Wagner:

I my have another in the list of "Great Views - Course, not so much".


I may have to play there a second time to cement my feelings but I note the following:


1. Nice clubhouse
2. Clubhouse and gold staff were outstanding.
3. Views of the Lehigh Valley & Delaware River really were spectacular.
4. The course was routed quite well, given what the land was like.
5. I scratched my head on several of the greens - you've arrived by playing 2 (or 3) good shots and then the green is contoured with almost un-pinnable locations.


I'd like to go back to see if my initial impressions were spot on but this course has been reviewed and opined upon here on GCA - Morgan Hill.

Gib_Papazian

Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2021, 03:45:47 PM »
Interesting the perception of Troon is improving. My last trip, we took a walk around the Portland Course and I was terribly sorry I'd wasted a day trying to find something to like about the Open Course, aside from #7-#11. The rest of it was a yawn at best. The Portland had so much more nuance and greenside interest, I'd make a special trip to play it.


Then again, I much prefer the Queens to the Kings at Gleneagles, so I'm probably in the category of perversely contrarian critic . . . . . at least that is what Dean Knuth thinks.


Interesting several prominent Treehouse dwellers hate Spanish Bay. Personally, I dearly love everything about it. It is a bit like the Grateful Dead - I can understand why some people cannot stand free-form,  what-the-fuck was that(?) music . . . . but to me, the odd quirks are not only endearing, but a source of endless fascination.


One thing, Spanish Bay holds my interest, every single time - and I look forward to the next hole, if only to finally decipher the riddle. How to play #5 this time? Where do I aim on #13 to avoid another quintuple bogey (while -2 in a qualifier)?


By contrast, Poppy Ridge is like bad elevator muzak . . . . each hole a milquetoast repeat of the last colossal bore. Which two nines of the three do I want to play? Why does it matter? They are all like reruns of the Lawrence Welk show, so BRING ME A BUCKET."


The courses I actively hate are either like PasaderaDoveMountainRubyHillOldGreenwood - let's see if you can hoist that 4-iron onto a dead flat ribbon of cement 18 times in a row - or Lake Merced, an exercise in poorly done, clumsy, awkward landscape architecture that shrieks "mailed in" by somebody who wasted a lot of money to lure a Women's Open that never happened. I still wonder if David Fay got a kickback from Rees, but that is only mean spirited speculation.


Really, the one thing I loathe are courses described by humorless gunners as "straightforward, everything is right out in there in front of you, objective, fair tests of golf." Like that is a compliment? It sounds like spending an afternoon taking the SAT.


That is not to say I mind the occasional exercise in Calvinist, self-flagellation, but a steady diet of horsewhips and cattle prods (read: Carnoustie and Oakmont) - I just recognize the futility of playing chess against a supercomputer.


It is the boring repetition - and lack of personality - that sets my teeth on edge . . . . . come to think of it, Tehama is "The Room" of private courses. Except not "so bad it is good," but "so bad it is worse." 
     










 


   








Tim Martin

  • Total Karma: 1
Re: "It's only wafer thin" - courses of note for Mr. Creosote.
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2021, 05:59:55 PM »
Would I be wrong to say this discussion should be focused more on the clubs in any individual city rather than the classics?


I have had a few recent experiences at well regarded club courses where I felt the urge to play may have been created by the maintenance, ambiance, and reputation of the club more than what I focus on, i.e., the design of the course itself. 


A situation like everyone from out of town wanting to play Olympic the most due to its tournament history when in reality SFGC is about twice the course is seemingly played out in nearly every city in America, no? 


In this group, and probably started by the Confidential Guide, many would start looking for undiscovered gems to reverse that trend, i.e., in Chicago Shoreacres vs. Medinah, Butler, and other more famous courses.  But then, it becomes a "must play" and in many cases, those unsung gems don't measure up quite as well, because now, THEY are the courses a certain segment of knowledgeable golfers ascribe greatness to.


Short version, it's all in the perception going in.


In Hartford it would be Wampanoag, CC of Farmington or Shuttle Meadow in any order over Hartford Golf Club which despite a fat maintenance budget isn’t as compelling.