the Architects Golf Club NJ

[Matt_Ward]

frank d:

Enjoy Great Bear! It's just slightly b-e-y-o-n-d what you find among the generic layouts in Florida!

[frank_D]

M W

sorry - i'll be at the ARCHITECTS GOLF CLUB both sat AND sun - not Great Bear on this trip - atthough i may be regretting it,  my schedule has been set

frank_D

[Matt_Ward]

frank d:

Would enjoy your feedback regarding Architect's.

The 7th is where things really start to get going. Enjoy the 9th as well -- one of the best long par-4's among all public courses in NJ.

[frank_D]

dear Matt Ward

funny you should ask for my feedback because i have already completed my first draft today entitled - "why i can't stand new jersey golf" - just kidding

weather permitting however even if i can play both days i am in no position to evaluate a golf course from any disipline be it architecture, turf, stimp reading or the like - i show up to the first tee - i hit the ball - i hope to find it - continue until holed - move to the next tee - repeat above seventeen times - find the bar - order gin martini - repeat (martini only)

i am intrigued by the design concept though so i am enthusiastic going in - is it possible future courses will be collaberations ? (ie an specialized architect for par threes and another specialized architect for par fours and yet another specialized architect to place the bunkers or tees or other specializations) or (ie how did nicklaus and palmer split the duties on the king & bear course)

i can only hope the weather cooperates

[Matt_Ward]

frank d:

Love the gentle tweaking with your desire to rag on Jurseeeeeee -- if you think you can make a case I'm all ears!

You see Frank it's really easy when I have such easy pickings as Florida.

Enjoy your time in Tony Soprano land ...

[frank_D]

M W

you might be interest in this if you haven't already seen it - i have recently been sent a cut out of an article in a NY paper showing a course being built in NJ to be the most expensive ever built according to the article - i have the article home and will provide more details tomorrow if i remember to bring it to the office

frank_D

[frank_D]

according to the NYPost oct 7 (p23) -  BAYONNE GOLF CLUB will be "world's most expensive manmade links" and per Jim Coady of Empire Golf (which owns ten other area courses)is funded by Tom Darden of Cherokee Investment Partners a $1.6 billion fund which buys landfills and contaminated dump sites and converts them to public use

[Matt_Ward]

frank d:

Interestingly enough -- two golf courses are planned for Hudson County -- one the nation's most densely populated counties and where no regulation golf course exists at this moment.

The Bayonne Golf Club is being handled through Empire Golf (Eric Bergstol) and it's likely any opening will not take place until '05 at the earliest. I've seen the routing plan and it does look quite impressive.

The other course is tabbed for Jersey City -- yes, Jersey City! The course name would be Liberty National Golf Course and the parent company is based in Chestnut Hill, MA. I believe the opening time for that layout may be a bit earlier than Bayonne Golf Club.

In either case it will be most interesting to see the fee structure that each puts forward.

[Bob_Farrell]

Matt Ward & Slapper:

I'd be happy to join you as a third at Great Bear in the spring. I'll be out of this cast and hopefully rehabbed by then.

I've heard nothing but good things about the course since it opened but haven't been able to get anyone to schlep out there with me.

BF

[Steve Lapper]

Bob,

    Combined, we will wup Matt's butt! We'll add our drives together to get to his.
 I never heard back from you re playing HF earlier this season but let's be sure to do it this coming season...hope you heal well.
slap

[Bob_Farrell]

Slapper:

I had a pretty rough season ith a torn tendon in my foot and really couldn't walk a course and play remotely well. If I was gonna get to HF I want to enjoy it and walk, so I sort of backed away from a lot. I didn't even enter some of the Sr events I would usually do.

I had this done witht he intent on being back up to strength for the spring, so I will definitely look forward to both HF, and our collectively taking on Matt.

If all goes well I'll be at the 2/28 gathering, so we should be able to meet in person. I'll look forward to it.

BF

[frank_D]

Frank...
If you're planning on teeing off at 2:10pm, it's going to be tight to get 18 in as it's getting dark around 4:30/5:00pm.  I would recommend moving your tee time up if possible.  

Dear Brother BIG B

THANK YOU for your suggestion - if it weren't for your response my entire day would have been a weather related disaster

i did exactly as you advised - and moved my tee time to noon (actually teed off at about 11:45AM on sat nov 29 - and i was in by 1:50PM - walking - carrying the clubs)

by 2PM the weather was 30-40 degrees with 40-50 MPH sustained winds with 50+ MPH gusts and clouds heralding in armageddon - NO ONE teed off after that per the pro shop

Gratefully yours

frank_D

[frank_D]

frank d:
Would enjoy your feedback regarding Architect's.

Dear Brother Matt_Ward

the course is one where i remeber every single hole afterwards having played the course only that one time - and while i do not intend to compare it to any other particlular course design -  only world woods pine barrens ever qualified that same response from me

i walked all eighteen carrying the bag despite 30-40 degree temperature and 40-50 MPH sustained winds with 50+ MPH gusts - even the rented tripod club bag blew over more than once - i would say even the heartiest golfer would term the weather conditions borderline brutal - and if not for the advise of Brother Big B on this thread to move up my tee time from 2PM to noon - i would not have played at all - as no one teed off after 1:30PM and only 14 or so teed off at all that entire day per the pro shop ledger

i liked the rural country atmosphere approaching the course - i was greeted by and assisted by a friendly staff who helped me buy shoes, balls, tees etc and provided rented clubs, a yardage book and pamphlet on memeberships - at 11:45 teeing off i had the whole place to myself - so i had no distractions and therfore was able to fully enjoy the panoramic views as all the trees were bare limbs which exposed all the hole layouts unobstructed - the course condition was very good even considering the time of year - i took the course theme as a chance to learn more about golf architects i may not have known without analyzing the science of it being true or accurate to ever detail from tee to green - and had a memorable round

i liked the walkability of the course most of all followed by the immersion into history as a golf course theme and in no particlular order the location of the course, the condition of the course and the helpfulness of the staff

the only change i would encourage is to delete eliminate and grass over ALL the cart paths and make it walking only - and maybe bring back caddies to further the historical feel of the course - however being in NJ i'm sure union work rules and prevailing wage rates etc would make this impossible

frank_D

[Dan Herrmann]

frank,
While I totally agree that this should be walking only, it'll never happen.

Architects in mid-summer isn't exactly what you saw last week.  Yep - the course is just as good - it's the golfers who mess the place up.

Last time I played, there was a very slow group ahead of us from, let's say, a country to the west of California.  They were on a 5.5 hour pace, when, on #13, they tried to drive their cart over that little stone walking bridge fronting the green.  The jerks actually got the cart so that the front and back wheels were off the ground, and the only part touching the ground was directly below the seat.  They did damage to the stonework, and the marshall tried to kick them off the course.  They ignored him (a nice college-aged kid) and just kept playing.

Funniest (and saddest) thing I've ever seen on a golf course.

Fortunately for my wife and I, it convinced us to join French Creek!

[frank_D]

they tried to drive their cart over that little stone walking bridge fronting the green.  The jerks actually got the cart so that the front and back wheels were off the ground, and the only part touching the ground was directly below the seat.  They did damage to the stonework,

i would like to see - maybe if just for only one week out of the season - to ban carts from courses and have players WALK

i my mind if you eliminate carts - and the cart paths - only serious golfers will play the course - which will solve ALL the other problems associated with golf today (ie bad ettiquite, slow play and improve general course conditions etc)

mind you - the next thing is COMMERCIALS to run on the on-board screens inside the carts - which will be as welcome in my mind as cellphones

[Big B]

Frank D...

I'm glad everything worked out well!


Big B

[George Pazin]

Here's another one, mayday.

[mike_malone]

 George,

    Thanks for this. After reading this I would add that I enjoyed the setting as well. Although they planted some evergreens out of play between #18 and the rest of the course. I guess they want to be like every other classic era course. The high rough was relatively thin; I like that because you can find your ball and hit it. Possibly this is weather related, but I hope not.

[Steve Lapper]

George,

    Thanks for this. After reading this I would add that I enjoyed the setting as well. Although they planted some evergreens out of play between #18 and the rest of the course. I guess they want to be like every other classic era course. The high rough was relatively thin; I like that because you can find your ball and hit it. Possibly this is weather related, but I hope not.

There are no Evergreens btw #18 and the rest of the course...you must have played somewhere else!

[mike_malone]

Steve,

   There is a line of evergreens visible from the clubhouse. #18  was to the right of my view. It is possible that I can imagine these trees, but unfortunately, not this time.

[Steve Lapper]

There are a few small trees planted at the foot of recently-constructed clubhouse. They don't really come anywhere near in play of the 18th hole (although given that its a RTJ imitation, it might just as well be part of the tribute! )

The real reason for those small trees is to give the clubhouse a small berm and some shade relief....they really have ZERO effect on the play or the vistas.

[mike_malone]

 Steve,

    The trees I saw looked newly planted; it is a row of trees that apppear to be 15/20 feet high going for more than 100 yards and is within the course, although not in play. It will eventually obscure the view from the clibhouse of the hills beyond and certainly of the course.

   As you may know I am sensitive about evergreens. They may have been planted since your last visit.

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