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Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tillinghast Greens
« on: October 02, 2021, 02:38:44 PM »
We had the very good fortune to play Somerset Hills and Ridgewood (Center and West) this past week. The greens/green complexes blew me away. Backboards, sideboards. False fronts, upslopes fronting, runoffs to the back. Bold contours, subtle ones. Very small to very large. Elevated to semi-sunken.


These are the first Tillinghast courses we have played (and am aware of WFW), but are they typical of Tillinghast greens or we just happened to play the extremely best?


Thanks.




Brian Marion

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2021, 04:23:28 PM »
We had the very good fortune to play Somerset Hills and Ridgewood (Center and West) this past week. The greens/green complexes blew me away. Backboards, sideboards. False fronts, upslopes fronting, runoffs to the back. Bold contours, subtle ones. Very small to very large. Elevated to semi-sunken.


These are the first Tillinghast courses we have played (and am aware of WFW), but are they typical of Tillinghast greens or we just happened to play the extremely best?


Thanks.


Ira, do you have pics?

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2021, 04:38:20 PM »
Brian,


No but Ran did a very good set of SH in Courses by Country.


Ira

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2021, 07:41:55 PM »
Somerset's greens are incredibly unique.


Calling any of Tilly's courses or greens typical I don't really think is appropriate as his work and style changed so much from course to course and that is what makes him one of the best... but I would say Ridgewood's greens are more "typical" than Somerset even though you may not recognize his greens at Fenway.


Ira Sorry you didn't  get to play the east as well as #3 E is one of the best on the course too, but at least you got to see 5W!

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2021, 08:47:14 PM »
Somerset's greens are incredibly unique.


Calling any of Tilly's courses or greens typical I don't really think is appropriate as his work and style changed so much from course to course and that is what makes him one of the best... but I would say Ridgewood's greens are more "typical" than Somerset even though you may not recognize his greens at Fenway.


Ira Sorry you didn't  get to play the east as well as #3 E is one of the best on the course too, but at least you got to see 5W!


Yes, but I got to play "Nickel and Dime". Our host had his second catch up in the rough short of the green and chipped to the back to use the slope--went in for his birdie. Talk about member knowledge.


I quite liked Center especially 5 through 9.


Ira

Brian Marion

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2021, 08:56:14 AM »
Brian,


No but Ran did a very good set of SH in Courses by Country.


Ira


Thanks Ira, great pics!

Ted Sirbaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2021, 08:11:19 PM »
Somerset's greens are incredibly unique.


Calling any of Tilly's courses or greens typical I don't really think is appropriate as his work and style changed so much from course to course and that is what makes him one of the best... but I would say Ridgewood's greens are more "typical" than Somerset even though you may not recognize his greens at Fenway.


Ira Sorry you didn't  get to play the east as well as #3 E is one of the best on the course too, but at least you got to see 5W!


Agreed. In my limited exposure to Tillinghast's courses, I've found Somerset's greens to be considerably more unique than the others I have seen. All have been great, but the others are more consistent and perhaps more "typical" of Tillinghast - often sloped back-to-front with a few ridges and/or shelves.


I'm not sure I've ever seen greens like 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 14, 15, 17 or 18 at Somerset.

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2021, 06:12:21 PM »
After 8 or so rounds I consider Sunnehanna’s greens to be the best set that I’ve played. Not just of Tillie’s but of all that I played. Their size and the way they can push decision making back down the hole is why I feel this way.


Also, they make sense to me. I don’t mean that the tilt and surface drainage makes reading them easy, but rather that I feel like I understand why they are doing what they are. They are very challenging without feeling tricky or trying to be extreme for the sake of being extreme.


Other big name Tillie courses I’ve played include both Baltusrol, Philly Cricket and Baltimore. Throw in some PA slate belt ones. All are good, but Sunnehanna does it for me.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2021, 07:55:17 PM »
I have been lucky enough to play all of Tillinghast’s courses that make the various Top 100 lists as well as many of the under the radar ones that don’t like Irem Temple, Suneagles, Valley Club, Shawnee,… as well as many of his redesigns - Scarsdale, Sleepy Hollow, Fox Hill, Newport, Sankaty Head,… to name a few.  I happen to think Tillinghast’s greens have as much or more variety in their design then any of the other golden age architects.  I get to play in the member guest quite often at Somerset Hills, love the course and the greens, but they couldn’t be more different then for example Winged Foot West or San Francisco.  The little mentioned Valley CC’s greens are outstanding and rank up there but again are very different from what you will find at say Quaker Ridge.  Fenway was mentioned and I think it might be the short par four 15th (I think) that has one of the coolest tiny narrow greens you will ever see. It would be hard to pick his top five sets of greens as there are so many to choose from. But we all know it wouldn’t be The Black. I have said here before if The Black at Bethpage had Winged Foot West’s greens the course would be the hardest in the country by miles. 

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2021, 08:08:19 PM »
After 8 or so rounds I consider Sunnehanna’s greens to be the best set that I’ve played. Not just of Tillie’s but of all that I played. Their size and the way they can push decision making back down the hole is why I feel this way.


Also, they make sense to me. I don’t mean that the tilt and surface drainage makes reading them easy, but rather that I feel like I understand why they are doing what they are. They are very challenging without feeling tricky or trying to be extreme for the sake of being extreme.


Other big name Tillie courses I’ve played include both Baltusrol, Philly Cricket and Baltimore. Throw in some PA slate belt ones. All are good, but Sunnehanna does it for me.


Sunnehanna's Greens are absolutely fabulous. That course is criminally underrated. I agree it is/could be better than the others you list... But Philly Cricket and Baltimore CC are not great examples of his greens as they have been rebuilt, softened and do not have the flair nor the tie-ins that most of Tilly's originals do.

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2021, 08:17:13 PM »
Sunnehanna is a wonderful golf course that I have played many times.  It is about to undergo a renovation as much has changed.  Several architects have worked on it including Flynn. 

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2021, 09:33:42 PM »
I saw this in the Nature Faker the last time I opened it up. My biggest surprise was the passage on the 12th being likely changed by Flynn, and then what’s there not looking particularly like Flynn’s drawing at that. I think 12 is a really cool complex given a spot on the course with essentially nothing to work with. I admit I am drawn to interesting holes that were built giving nothing to really work with.


Sunnehanna is a wonderful golf course that I have played many times.  It is about to undergo a renovation as much has changed.  Several architects have worked on it including Flynn.

Jon Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast Greens
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2021, 05:22:06 PM »
Often read in numerous places that Somerset were his best set of greens. World class course, fantastic Redan, and a ton of variation with a great biarritz in there as well. The green following that one with the frying panish type was amazing too. Absolutely loved that course and is as much fun as I’ve had playing golf.

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