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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2024, 02:58:04 PM »

Luckily, the green at 9 and the fairway on 10 had all been covered with buckthorn, which they insisted we remove, and since there was no moss there we were allowed to convert those areas to fescue.  But that's why there is such a long walk from 9 green to 10 tee . . .

Tom

Off topic, but interesting to me at least. Would you have the 10th tee closer to the 9th green if possible? Perhaps a forward tee?



My original plan was to have two more holes in between, a par-4 playing back to the west below #9, and then a par-3 out toward 10 tee.  But we couldn't build those.


The forward [ladies'] tee for #10 is actually up there close to #9 green.  It's fun to play from there -- I think it's 275 yards -- but since it comes between two other par-3's, they would never have gone for that as the main option.  The two existing tees are really the only others that made sense, anything closer would be right under the slope of the hill and it would be impossible to get your bearings on where to aim.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2024, 04:12:50 PM »

Luckily, the green at 9 and the fairway on 10 had all been covered with buckthorn, which they insisted we remove, and since there was no moss there we were allowed to convert those areas to fescue.  But that's why there is such a long walk from 9 green to 10 tee . . .

Tom

Off topic, but interesting to me at least. Would you have the 10th tee closer to the 9th green if possible? Perhaps a forward tee?



My original plan was to have two more holes in between, a par-4 playing back to the west below #9, and then a par-3 out toward 10 tee.  But we couldn't build those.


The forward [ladies'] tee for #10 is actually up there close to #9 green.  It's fun to play from there -- I think it's 275 yards -- but since it comes between two other par-3's, they would never have gone for that as the main option.  The two existing tees are really the only others that made sense, anything closer would be right under the slope of the hill and it would be impossible to get your bearings on where to aim.


When I was wandering around that land plotting the best “additions” in 2009, I am sure I saw a plan that went:


8 (old 11), then old 12 (which was a sad loss), then a par 4 dogleg left on the same corridor and orientation that the current par-3 11th is, then current 9 (but probably further left), then current 10,  a walk up to the old 13th which was a par-3… this would have meant no new par-3 15th.


Was that ever on the table or am I dreaming that? Or was it possibly my plan and my memory is confused!

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2024, 05:03:12 PM »




But, a story from my younger days:  the ASGCA annual meeting was in Palm Springs in February 1984, when I was working on the plans for the Stadium Course at PGA West.  So Mr. and Mrs. Dye brought me along into one or two meetings [which wouldn't be allowed now].  At the time one of their big topics was whether or not to let Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer be part of the organization or not.  Mr. Dye was one of the most vocal members in favor of them joining, he thought that the organization would be crazy to fight some of the busiest firms in the industry. 


Meanwhile, one of the most vocal guys AGAINST letting the Tour pros join was . . . Ed Seay!  So, yeah, it took a special kind of guy to be him.





I play at a course that Ed Seay most likely designed while working for Ellis Maples in 1970. The course also showed up on the website of Arnold Palmer's firm when he worked there.





« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 05:07:55 PM by JMEvensky »

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2024, 06:22:01 PM »

I mean you're right, of course, but that is the same across the industry. Tom is very good about sharing credit with his associates, but still, who gets more calls, him or Eric Iverson? How many people have heard of Roger Rulewich as opposed to Robert Trent Jones Sr? I think it has got to have been even more frustrating to be the main guy in a signature pro firm. It takes a special kind of person to be Ed Seay and go to an opening and listen to Arnold talk about how he designed a course.

The guy whose name is on the shingle is always going to get the credit.


The guy whose name is on the shingle is also generally the one who has to write everyone else's paycheck, so, yes, that carries some weight.


But, a story from my younger days:  the ASGCA annual meeting was in Palm Springs in February 1984, when I was working on the plans for the Stadium Course at PGA West.  So Mr. and Mrs. Dye brought me along into one or two meetings [which wouldn't be allowed now].  At the time one of their big topics was whether or not to let Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer be part of the organization or not.  Mr. Dye was one of the most vocal members in favor of them joining, he thought that the organization would be crazy to fight some of the busiest firms in the industry. 


Meanwhile, one of the most vocal guys AGAINST letting the Tour pros join was . . . Ed Seay!  So, yeah, it took a special kind of guy to be him.


Tom,


I am curious about the "it wouldn't be allowed now" aside. I know that you are not a member, but if Bill Coore or Gil Hansen wanted to bring one of their younger employees/associates to an ASGCA meeting, they would not be allowed to do so?


Thanks.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2024, 04:20:54 AM »

Luckily, the green at 9 and the fairway on 10 had all been covered with buckthorn, which they insisted we remove, and since there was no moss there we were allowed to convert those areas to fescue.  But that's why there is such a long walk from 9 green to 10 tee . . .

Tom

Off topic, but interesting to me at least. Would you have the 10th tee closer to the 9th green if possible? Perhaps a forward tee?



My original plan was to have two more holes in between, a par-4 playing back to the west below #9, and then a par-3 out toward 10 tee.  But we couldn't build those.


The forward [ladies'] tee for #10 is actually up there close to #9 green.  It's fun to play from there -- I think it's 275 yards -- but since it comes between two other par-3's, they would never have gone for that as the main option.  The two existing tees are really the only others that made sense, anything closer would be right under the slope of the hill and it would be impossible to get your bearings on where to aim.

Thanks. The 10th is awkward so I could see that as a short hole. Mind you, the best view on the course would then be lost. I am back next month, but my bet is the guys won’t play the forward tee.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2024, 05:44:15 AM »
Re golf built on SSSI land, if I recall correctly one of the greens on the Devlin Course at St Andrews Bay was built on SSSI land. The vast majority of the site was farmland but there was a sliver of SSSI land that the developer encroached on. They were made to move the green and as a result they ended up with a very short (90 yards ?) par 3. Or at least that was the story I was told  :-\


Niall

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2024, 02:37:19 AM »
It is a balance for sure and one for the government to make. Each side will have an argument. If it is possible to come to a compromise I'd love to see the course built. I am for conservation, but if done responsibly the positives for the community would be significant. 
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2024, 09:51:47 AM »
Well, I now know that if I'm over 55 I can get my teeth replaced for free. Good to know.


Niall

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #59 on: March 14, 2024, 02:15:00 PM »

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Coul Links Lives (sort of, part 2)
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2024, 03:39:41 PM »
From the UK Golf Guy:

https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/coul-links-decision


Sorry, I can barely stop laughing long enough to type a reply.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.