[Gib_Papazian]

Time seems to inexorably and exponentially accelerate - and with it, the inevitable obsolescence of not only (read: what is left of) my golf skills, but the beautifully crafted implements that adorned my office.


I'll go out on a limb and assert I've got a peerless collection of persimmon clubs - most (but not all) handmade Orlimar beauties, all meticulously waxed to a spitshine that would put military dress shoes to shame.


I was blessed to spend quite a bit of time with Lou Ortiz at the factory - and have dozens of his pristine works of art, along with sets of Tommy Armour, Helen Hicks and about every sexy persimmon-headed club made since the 1950s.


Does ANYBODY even attempt to play persimmon anymore? I'm hardly an expert, but it seems the new golf balls drop out of the sky when hit with "wood woods." My theory is that either the modern ball does not spin enough off the tee to get any air under it - or my bat speed has degenerated to the point of being more erratic and slower than a Niekro knuckleball.


I cannot bring myself to toss the collection, so what happens to impossibly beautiful persimmon woods in an era of howitzer launching, oversized, garish, hideous metallic monstrosities - designed to launch a porcelain superball into the ionosphere?


No no no, I am not going to saw off the heads or display a quaint rack of clubs above the fireplace. There is a lot of spiritual power in those bats; gorgeous old cars and golf clubs with screws are meant to be driven, not looked at in a museum.


The Senior Table in the Treehouse is getting mighty crowded, so what do the rest of us - in the throes of codgerous dotage - do with all our wooden reminders of "When Golf Was Good?"


Is there a golf ball made anymore, soft enough to spin off a real golf club? Am I actually hallucinating about the modern ball?


There literally have to be several million wooden sticks floating around America and Britain, so what becomes of them? There is nothing quite satisfying as catching a shot "right on the screws" . . . . . maybe revive the KP, except with wood woods?


Perhaps I am just mumbling out loud (again), but what is to become of these noble implements from a "more civilized age?"           




   



 

[John Kavanaugh]

I enjoy playing them. Not all that much difference in length for me on firm fairways.


One thing I don't understand is why a clothing company would be selling a modern version. Uncheaply at that.


https://linksoul.com/collections/woods

[JMEvensky]

2 Macgregors and 2 Toney Pennas sitting arm's length from me. Take them out rarely and let some younger guys try to hit them--after making sure the balls are teed up very low--don't want any dummy marks.


For me there's a huge difference from my titanium Titleist driver--probably some difference attributable to the steel shaft, some to the weight--but the biggest difference is mostly due to LOFT.

[Thomas Dai]

I play with my old lovely steel shafted MacGregor persimmon woods (and early UK era) Mizuno blades a few times per year.
Delightful on good strikes, frustrating on less than good contact. Not a lot of forgiveness but it’s the carry and the trajectory that really stands out vrs modern era equipment.
Likely a good element of this is due to my swing getting slower as age my increases and there’s probably a modern vrs older spec ball issue too, but the trajectory is way lower. Also less spin on iron shots although this is probably due to older style stamped grooves vrs modern sharper milled/cast grooves (as well as an older me and a different spec ball).
Retro golf can be good fun. Insightful and educational too. You’ll likely view older courses in a different way if/when you play them with retro gear.
If someone should want to find out what golf was like before larger size titanium/metal heads, hybrids, graphite shafts, cavity back irons etc give retro a go.
Lots of old persimmon woods with steel shafts and steel shafted blade irons/wedges too and they’re usually at pretty good prices on eBay.
Shame newly made but older spec golf balls aren’t really available any more as that would enhance the retro experience.
For all the same reasons hickory clubs, original ones not replicas, are worth a go too.
Atb

[Peter Pallotta]

A poignant image there, Gib, of the beautiful and much-loved works of art destined to one day be homeless and forlorn in this our technologically advanced (but spiritually fading) society.

For years I'd taken good care of and enjoyed my more modest but still noble collection of implements, i.e. the run of the mill Hogans and garden variety Powerbilts and less-than-premium Wilsons; the 4 woods in particular were my favourites.

But when it was time to let them go, I found that I couldn't think of anyone who wanted them, or at least who'd be as fond of them as I was -- and so I went to the local Goodwill and donated them all.

I like to imagine a youngster coming across them and feeling that he'd struck gold, and falling in love with those old classics.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Every year, in late October, 3 of us play with "persimmons and blades."


For me, it's a 1-3-5 wood set of MacGregor Eye-o-matics (95s?) and my 1984 Wilson Staff Tour blades, JP-57 wedge and original 8802 putter.


Humbling, to say the least.


One of my buddies had inventory of old Titleist Professional 100s, but they are now over.
We just use old shag-bag balls and have a blast.

[Mike Hendren]

Gyromaniac, I find this problematic throughout my attic.  I have a Cypress Point Club pencil bag in the corner of the den with a few of my favorites (Power-Bilt and McGregor woods as well as 1956 and 1957 Wilson Staff irons) peaking out the top. Heck I can't even part with my shiny  orange Power-Bilt bag out in the shed. 


The bigger problem is what to do with other sentimental items including my Cadaco Foto Football game (1971 version with your USC Trojan leaving a Bruin in the dust on the cover). Sports Illustrated Golf Game and my two club championship trophies from 1974 and 1976 (a red, white and blue beauty).   Don't even get me started on Dad's stuff, including his amazing stamp collection that is virtually worthless or my wooden Spalding hockey stick from the Memphis Red Wings back in the sixties. 


The only thing I've given up is my life-size Lee Trevino cut-out from his days as a Dodge spokesman, complete with the band aid covering his ex-girlfriend's name


Nice title by the way.


Bogey

[Kalen Braley]

There could be a budding after market for those kinds of things on sites like Craigslist or Ebay.  My son has some basketball trading cards and some of them have gotten fairly valuable...

[Jim Sherma]

Heading out tomorrow with the following set:


1950’s Hagen 2-wood (with a lightweight Union UCV-304 driver shaft reshafted in 1981 or so)


Late 70’s Toney Penna 5wood


1952 George Sayers blades 1-SW (honestly, the combination of age and lower spin balls make the 1 and 2 irons pretty useless)


1982 Wilson 8813 with aluminum Head-Speed” shaft


This is the set I used in high school for the 1982-83 and 1983-84 golf seasons.


I’ve been using the Kirkland 3-piece - they overspin with new equipment but seem to work well with the old stuff.


I have a bunch of other persimmons but these two keep getting the pull when I break the out.

[Peter Flory]

A lot of hickory players play the Wilson Duo Spin balls. 

But you do point out a definite problem in that most of the modern golf balls are meant to have low spin when hit with a driver.

With hickory clubs, I end up just playing a driver with slightly higher loft than I otherwise would.  My driver has about 11 degrees on it and that ends up hitting a normal trajectory with a modern ball. 


So with classic persimmons, you might have a better time if you teed off with a 2 wood.

[Gib_Papazian]

Well, it is not like I'm suggesting we band together with Allan Robertson and haunt the Auld Sod for heretics playing the Gutty - I would not even know where to find an authentic top hat, let alone enough expired ducks to make a featherie ball.


The game seems to be endlessly chasing our collective, avaricious tail - peeling five Franklins and more for the illusion of five extra yards, instantly negated by new tee boxes, built on confiscated land where Bambi used to take a shit.


Perhaps these newfangled bats are the viagra of the new age, but this continuous dumbing down of our history and how the game is played have hardly pushed golf''s popularity to the next level.


I liken it to my students - addicted to camera sensors that seemingly suck photons through the glass - yet not one of which comes to class with the slightest interest in how a classically trained artist learns basic scales.


Mixing my metaphors, but any idiot can shriek a Sex Pistols "song" at full volume - but expressing a beautifully phrased lick on a Strat - or thinking ball placement off the tee instead of putting a racing stripe in your lace panties trying to be Bryson Dent - are two wildly different levels of expertise.


This flailing away with titanium blasters and dimpled bullets has cheapened the game . . . . . Betamax, cassette tapes and floppy disks had their moments of glory, but I am hoping that, like high fidelity record players, the old ways will make a roaring comeback.


In the meantime, anybody know where I can get actual balata golf balls? 90 compression if possible . . . . .






   

[John McCarthy]

2 mid 1980s Cleveland Classics in my garage, made just before the change to metal driver heads. 


By my left hand I have a copy of Ralph Maltby's "Golf Club Design, Fitting, Alteration & Repair" I bought off ebay in the last few months.  4th edition. 


The idea is to find a few good and sound persimmons with no dry rot, refinish, regroove, rewhip, regrip and figure out how to make them trophys for events.  My handwriting is terrible but a dark stain with nice stencil/painted calligraphy for the name and date of the event. 


I have none of the equipment so if anyone knows any of the old club repairers at their club that wants to hand down some hard to find equipment - and there are excellent videos on youtube - let me know.

[Peter Flory]

You can buy the old balatas or professional 90s on ebay, which I have done.  The problem is their shelf life is short, which means that they've pretty much all gone stale.  They fall out of the air unnaturally and they won't even roll straight on a flat surface.  I just end up using the ones I bought for hitting into a net with my hickory clubs because they still feel nice and soft. 

[Jim Sherma]

Gib - I currently am running a Sony PCM F-1 digital processor with a functioning Beta machine. Playing pristine dead tapes from my days as a taper in the 80’s, amazingly most of them still track well. Some of the best fidelity imaginable to this day. I know this stuff is never coming back - but it’s nice that it still exists with a few old freaks.

[JimB]

Good stuff Gib. I grew into the game with Jesse Ortiz nearby and one of his father’s sand wedges in my bag.  It pains me not to know where it is. Unfortunately, by the time I started playing they were not making many persimmon clubs. A nice old persimmon wood would be a lot of fun to try or at least look at.

[Michael Moore]

I played persimmon well into the first decade of Pro V1 and it was a fine pairing. But I must admit that the (50 compression??) Lady Precept mashed the best and flew the farthest.

[John Kirk]

I played Orlimar Diamond woods for several years in the eighties and early nineties.  Orlimar was mostly a regional brand, manufactured in Hayward, CA.

My Dad was quite thrifty beyond the necessities.  One of his few extravagances was golf clubs.  He joked that he was "buying a better game."  It would be fair to say his favorite place to shop was Fry's, an early golf warehouse in South San Francisco.  He'd go up there every month or so, and over the years he bought lots of different clubs, including various versions of the Orlimar Diamond woods.  These smallish fairway woods had a pair of little rails on the bottom, which helped cut through the wet northern California rough.  Eventually they made their way into my golf bag as I learned the game.

When Dad died in early 2003, he had two big golf bags full of woods, wedges and putters.  We held two informal services to remember him, one at his workplace and one at the local golf club.  My sister and I decided the right thing to do with the golf clubs was to bring them to the golf get together, and let his friends take whatever they wanted.  We probably gave away fifty or more golf clubs.  He had a wonderful group of friends there.  After twenty or so years away from the game, he started to play again when I showed an interest.  He joined the local club and had a great twenty-five year second golf career, along with warm friendships enjoyed at the course.


Thanks for the nice memory.

P.S. Michael Moore, the first draft of this note included the fact that Dad played Lady Precepts for a couple years.  Funny.

[Jeff Schley]

When Dad died in early 2003, he had two big golf bags full of woods, wedges and putters.  We held two informal services to remember him, one at his workplace and one at the local golf club.  My sister and I decided the right thing to do with the golf clubs was to bring them to the golf get together, and let his friends take whatever they wanted.  We probably gave away fifty or more golf clubs.  He had a wonderful group of friends there.  After twenty or so years away from the game, he started to play again when I showed an interest.  He joined the local club and had a great twenty-five year second golf career, along with warm friendship enjoyed at the course.


Thanks for the nice memory.

P.S. Michael Moore, the first draft of this note included the fact that Dad played Lady Precepts for a couple years.  Funny.

John good story about your dad, sounds like a great man and father.

[Carl Nichols]

How hard would it be to manufacture some new balata balls?  I know absolutely nothing about how such balls were made, but perhaps one could find the old machines and materials.

[Ted Sturges]

My Dad bought me my first set of men's clubs when I was about 13.  They were a used set of MacGregor Tourney "MT's" irons and persimmon woods (driver, 3, 4 and 5 woods).  The irons were the version that had a black-ish face inset, and the woods were black finish with the silver clubface.  In 1974, they were the coolest things I had ever seen. 


Several years ago I found the woods at my parent's home.  I brought them home, had them refinished and regripped, and they hang on the wall of my golf-themed office at home. They are a prized possession. 


TS

[Peter Flory]

How hard would it be to manufacture some new balata balls?  I know absolutely nothing about how such balls were made, but perhaps one could find the old machines and materials.

I have a fantasy that Snell would take an interest in it and try to be the monopoly on that niche.  With how fragmented the ball market is, it seems like there could be an opportunity there for a high spinning, ultra soft ball.  They just feel so good to hit.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Try the Nike One Platinum. Old, but new enough that you might find some on the Bay. That ball had insane spin rates. No one played that ball besides Tiger.

[BHoover]

How hard would it be to manufacture some new balata balls?  I know absolutely nothing about how such balls were made, but perhaps one could find the old machines and materials.

I have a fantasy that Snell would take an interest in it and try to be the monopoly on that niche.  With how fragmented the ball market is, it seems like there could be an opportunity there for a high spinning, ultra soft ball.  They just feel so good to hit.

Over the past few years I’ve been playing with old clubs (hickories and steel-shafted persimmon woods and blades). I find myself having more fun when playing with vintage clubs. My only complaint is trying to drum up interest in getting others to play them too.


My go-to vintage set are a few MacGregor woods from the early- and mid-50s (M85, 693, and 945 drivers) and a few other woods from Toney Penna and Cleveland. For irons, my current favorite is my set of MacGregor Jack Nicklaus Muirfields, and I also have a set  of Ben Hogan Apex Redlines.


I’d absolutely love to find a replica balata ball to play. I’ve been using to Wilson Duo Soft most of the time. I also have a couple sleeves of unhit Titleist Tour balatas, but I’m afraid to lose them. If any manufacturer would produce a modern balata ball for vintage play, they would immediately have a new customer.

[Jason Topp]

I did not expect this to be about golf clubs

[Tom Bacsanyi]

I did not expect this to be about golf clubs

Sicko! (I thought the same). Catching a balata ball on the screws with a persimmon will have you "sporting wood" for sure.

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