[Kirk Gill]

This course suits my eye, but not my game. I enjoy the heaving fairways, the wild look of the bunkering, the "alone in the forest" vibe, the blind-ish drives, where it's clear where you need to go, but you can't see where your ball ends up. I like how not all the bunkers look the same, with different sizes and surrounds. I like that the course sort of winks at you now and again. There's a touch, to me, of Pine Valley, or the PV that existed maybe 30 years ago. It seems like it is a course that would reward repeat/regular play, just because it seems like a complex environment that would reward the development of local knowledge more than most.


It also just looks like a very difficult course. A course that might make for a tough walk for a big ol' geezer like myself. I see, in the sand and stone and woods, a lot of places where my ball and I might spend some quality time, or suffer emotional separations.


I appreciate the photos, Jon, and I for one like how you give each hole some due, even if they're not all favorites of yours.

[Sean Ogle]

Fantastic tour. I played BGC for the first time in October, and was blown away. It was my favorite course from our trip that included Country Club, Essex Count, Myopia Hunt and Galloway National. Granted TCC was in pouring rain and certainly wasn't in prime condition.

[JC Jones]

Fantastic tour. I played BGC for the first time in October, and was blown away. It was my favorite course from our trip that included Country Club, Essex Count, Myopia Hunt and Galloway National. Granted TCC was in pouring rain and certainly wasn't in prime condition.

Random Galloway National add on.  6.5 hours away....

[Tim Martin]

Jon,
What type of camera are you using?

I use several different cameras.

If I recall correctly, the photos above were taken with a combination of a Sony and a Fuji, with an iPhone shot or two possibly mixed in.

So you can get the result we are seeing on an IPhone with no post processing software? Granted you said it was only used for a few shots but I am interested in that comment nonetheless.

It depends on what you mean by "the result we are seeing." I'll have to go back at look at the photos to see which were taken with what device. But to be clear, in this particular tour, one or two photos at most are iPhone shots - off the top of my head, I think the last shot of the 18th green from above was a phone shot.

Jon,

Tim isn't really interested in the technology.  He is so old he can barely use his flip phone.  He's just jealous of your access. 

[Brett_Morrissy]

BGC is a wonderful course and a great addition to the Boston golf scene.  I wish we had just one of their courses in Houston!!!!

This course suits my eye, but not my game. I enjoy the heaving fairways, the wild look of the bunkering, the "alone in the forest" vibe, the blind-ish drives, where it's clear where you need to go, but you can't see where your ball ends up. I like how not all the bunkers look the same, with different sizes and surrounds. I like that the course sort of winks at you now and again. There's a touch, to me, of Pine Valley, or the PV that existed maybe 30 years ago. It seems like it is a course that would reward repeat/regular play, just because it seems like a complex environment that would reward the development of local knowledge more than most.


It also just looks like a very difficult course. A course that might make for a tough walk for a big ol' geezer like myself. I see, in the sand and stone and woods, a lot of places where my ball and I might spend some quality time, or suffer emotional separations.

David,
Can you expand a little on your views of the course, have you played some of the recent new courses from C&C, MDVries, in the northern regions - how does the topography affect play?


Can you imagine yourself as commissioning this project, would you have asked for this kind of course, if you were looking to serve a strict members only type - as Kirk perhaps alluded to?


Kirk - what do you think of the above ? I wonder if Hanse delivered to the possible brief, of a course that unravelled to the regular member's games over time, that left much to discover?


Noted above also - the notion, (is it Mackenzie's?) that it appears very difficult, narrow - but in fact plays much easier than that. Or is it also not that easy ?


Just some more golf related questions - as this course intrigues me a lot.

[JBovay]

Apologies for joining this discussion so late.


I was very lucky to be invited to play BGC this fall, and I wanted to point out a few things that I did not see mentioned in this thread.


#5 - I agree with everything Jon says about the hole, but I think he understates the brilliance of the hole and the options it presents.


What are the options? At 317 yards and uphill, there would seem to be little to gain from hitting a driver: you'll have a wedge left into the green even if you hit a fairway wood, and the angle of attack only gets harder the closer you get to the green. As the aerial below shows, the green--only ten yards wide--is not oriented toward the part of the fairway where most players will be approaching from, but instead toward the wide part of the fairway something like 140 yards from the green. What's wrong with a 140-yard approach? It's probably 20 feet uphill and completely blind. Even with an approach of 120 (if I remember correctly), mine was completely blind. So, given the steep climb the hole makes from tee to green, you'll probably need to make a 230- or 240-yard swing to get onto flat ground and give yourself a clear view of the green.


Hit a driver, and leave yourself with a half-wedge, no trouble in front, and no visibility issues. But miss long, and you're dead. Both of my playing partners ended up in that back bunker with obstructed backswings, and each made a 7. One told me later that a former tour pro calls it the shortest par 5 in New England.



#11 - I was told that the dead tree behind the green was petrified. I'm not sure how that's possible or whether that's exactly right, but it sure is a striking color.
#12 - Notice how the green is set on a saddle: sloping down from both the left and right sides toward the center, but with a false front and also a false back.
#13 - My caddie told me that the stone ruin on the inside corner of the dogleg used to be a holding pen for lost-and-found cattle (evidently it had a wooden gate at one point).


All in all, a great place to play golf.

[William_G]

Jon,

thank you again for all your photo tour work..simply the best!!!

[Ally Mcintosh]

I was just revisiting my round at Boston GC.


The place was almost perfect, from the course to the clubhouse to the low key vibe.


Can someone tell me why this course doesn’t make a World Top-100? I mean, I know not every course can fit in. But there must be 30 courses on there that this could be swapped in for. Are lists really just about luck, marketing and “wow” moments to hook in one time visitors?


Why is this course not as good as Ohoopee or Old Sandwich or Cabot Links or Old MacDonald?…. Just bad luck?

[Dan_Callahan]

It is better than Old Sandwich, in my opinion. I haven’t played Cabot or Old Macdonald, but my guess is that setting and proximity to the water give those courses a bump up over a landlocked course in a Boston suburb.

[Tim Martin]

It is better than Old Sandwich, in my opinion.

+1-Given one play between the two I would choose BGC.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Dan, Tim,


I just threw out 4 random courses that were in the 100. I haven’t played any of them but it could have been any different 4.


Nevertheless, your replies further the question: Why do people think Boston doesn’t make it where others do?

[Adam G]

I agree -- it's my favorite course that I have played in New England.


Hanse is doing a big course and practice area / warmup range refresh over the next 2 years that should dramatically improve the experience. Hopefully after that it gets the respect it deserves.

[Joe Bausch]

Perhaps readers of this thread will appreciate my hole-by-hole tour of BGC from a visit of 11 years ago:


http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/BostonGolfClub/index.html

[Patrick Kiser]

Can someone tell me why this course doesn’t make a World Top-100? ...
Are lists really just about luck, marketing and “wow” moments to hook in one time visitors?...

I rarely post these days, but couldn't help myself on this one.
 
Couldn't agree more Ally.  Was beyond blown away by how good Boston Golf Club is.
 
To your question - and I've thought of this for some time - I think the following things come to mind as possible reasons and wrote this up some time ago:
 
- These are generalizations of course and just one's opinion, but I think it's because raters are not that different from your typical Woods comment of "everything right in front of you". 

- With no less than 9 blind tee shots, raters might not appreciate the amount of blindness and want things more spelled out.  They feel uneasy because they're simply not that comfortable with it.  They should visit Scotland or Ireland more often...  Blindness is one of the greatest elements in architecture in my mind because of the element of surprise and anticipation it provides.  Boston GC is a schooling for how it can be done the right way.

- Which goes back to this "fairness" ideal that folks get mixed up with.  There's nothing unfair about blindness if done right.  But perhaps there is a bit much of it?  I personally tend to prefer 1-3 blind holes per round give or take.  Too much blindness becomes repetitive.   

- Elsewhere, the number of forced carries might be a factor.  I counted 6 real carries. 

- Another thing is this course is more designed for the better player in mind I feel.  A high HCPer will struggle here I think.  It works better for the middle to low HCPer like ourselves.  The great courses play just as well for all levels of player.  To me Boston GC is not a tough course to play, but tough as nails to score on.  Which is another thing that will be considered "unfair", if it's too hard to score on.  I don't think it's too hard to score on.  The card and pencil pushers will knock it for this I think.   

- Green speeds might be another silly thing some folks get obsessed with and that's a shame, because the more speed ... the less potential for interesting contours.  I think the green speeds we experienced are about ideal given the contours, but raters might think they play a tad slower than elsewhere. 

- The other thing might be the lack of ... carts.  A lot of folks simply don't care to walk and that can play into the raters mind.  If on top of that there's somewhat of a walk, which there is, well then that just compounds it.  To me the walk is gradual enough and relatively reasonable.  Maybe not if I'm 90... The transition between the two nines can be criticized as well, but I personally like it because it gives me pause to reflect on the front nine plus provides me with a slight breather. 

- Finishing with a par 3 rarely seems to raise the bar with raters and this could affect their perception of the course. 

- I won't even go into how some factor in a clubhouse or even historical pedigree ... which is not really a critieria, but I see it happen too often.  I for one absolutely love the quaint and craftsman side of how the facilities were planned for.  The craftmanship is wonderful I feel. 

- All this to say, raters that don't project their preferences based on what they're familiar or more comfortable with is not necessarily that common I feel. 


- In either case, I hope it makes no difference to the membership because I wouldn't change a single thing.  There are some areas that can be discussed, but that's nitpicking.

- Finally, I've seen too many memberships out there get really caught up in believing they should be more than they should.  As in why are we not a top 10 or something like that.  The reality is not every place is as good as your Pine Valley, Cypress Point, etc.  What I look for is the course and its potential.  In other words, is it to the potential?  I can say without hesitation that Boston GC is a solid 10 in that regard.

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