Shedding Tears on the Straits

[Jeff Schley]

One thing that has surprised me a bit is how much of a pasting Harrington is getting in the UK media.

The role of the captain, let alone the needless platoon of vice captains, is one of the most ridiculously overblown things about the Ryder Cup.

Agree with all due respect to the captains. It is a position appointed as a reward for one's career in the game, also why they need 5 assistant captains as well as Tiger on speed dial for 7 captains and just 12 players? You go from a total individual sport to having 7 guys giving advice. I respect those in the role, but let's have some perspective on how important the captain is for the team. In the not to distant past the captains had 1 partial helper and somehow the work got done. No problem giving the historical greats their recognition as assistant captains, but let's not pretend they make any sort of difference in the outcome.

https://www.golfcompendium.com/2020/06/ryder-cup-assistant-captains.html

[Bill Seitz]

Harrington probably doesn't deserve criticism for the loss, or even the magnitude of it, though his pairings, especially for the third session seemed pretty suspect.  But even considering that the worst player at the event can beat the best player in any given round, there was a pretty big talent disparity between the two teams.  Sometimes the team that's much better just beats the crap out of the underdog.


That said, Harrington should be sending thank you notes to Justin Leonard and the Americans from the 1999 Ryder Cup team, because their display after the big putt took the heat off of him his deplorable behavior in his match with O'Meara.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,

It has gotten absurd.  I can only guess they've looked to NFL or NBA teams where they have a whole gaggle of assistants, but then again, they're playing a full season with a myriad of issues, concerns, and other things to attend to.

But one week 3 days of golf with 28 matches? 5 assistants?   Hilarious, but its just gonna get bigger, cause everyone wants a taste...

[Rob Marshall]

I would ask him why Sergio sat the afternoon of the first day. That would be my only question. Also they need more captains picks like the US has. Never heard of Weisburger.

[V_Halyard]

One thing that has surprised me a bit is how much of a pasting Harrington is getting in the UK media.

The role of the captain, let alone the needless platoon of vice captains, is one of the most ridiculously overblown things about the Ryder Cup.

Agree with all due respect to the captains. It is a position appointed as a reward for one's career in the game, also why they need 5 assistant captains as well as Tiger on speed dial for 7 captains and just 12 players? You go from a total individual sport to having 7 guys giving advice. I respect those in the role, but let's have some perspective on how important the captain is for the team. In the not to distant past the captains had 1 partial helper and somehow the work got done. No problem giving the historical greats their recognition as assistant captains, but let's not pretend they make any sort of difference in the outcome.

https://www.golfcompendium.com/2020/06/ryder-cup-assistant-captains.html

Oh wait, my bad...your talking about the Ryder Cup
not The Bears

[Jeff Schley]

I would ask him why Sergio sat the afternoon of the first day. That would be my only question. Also they need more captains picks like the US has. Never heard of Weisburger.

Rob are you serious? They had 4, just not as much of TV targets as the US side.Europe vice captains selected by Padraig Harrington: Robert Karlsson, Luke Donald, Martin Kaymer, Graeme McDowell

[Jeff Schley]

One thing that has surprised me a bit is how much of a pasting Harrington is getting in the UK media.

The role of the captain, let alone the needless platoon of vice captains, is one of the most ridiculously overblown things about the Ryder Cup.

Agree with all due respect to the captains. It is a position appointed as a reward for one's career in the game, also why they need 5 assistant captains as well as Tiger on speed dial for 7 captains and just 12 players? You go from a total individual sport to having 7 guys giving advice. I respect those in the role, but let's have some perspective on how important the captain is for the team. In the not to distant past the captains had 1 partial helper and somehow the work got done. No problem giving the historical greats their recognition as assistant captains, but let's not pretend they make any sort of difference in the outcome.

https://www.golfcompendium.com/2020/06/ryder-cup-assistant-captains.html

Oh wait, my bad...your talking about the Ryder Cup
not The Bears

Ouch Vaughn, kicking a man when he is down.  I think we will be down with a new coach and GM next season still. However, I like Fields and brighter days are ahead.

[JLahrman]

I would ask him why Sergio sat the afternoon of the first day. That would be my only question. Also they need more captains picks like the US has. Never heard of Weisburger.

Rob are you serious? They had 4, just not as much of TV targets as the US side.Europe vice captains selected by Padraig Harrington: Robert Karlsson, Luke Donald, Martin Kaymer, Graeme McDowell

Jeff I believe Rob was referring to the number of captain's picks for the team, not the number of assistant captains. Stricker got to make 6 captain's picks, Harrington only three. And there weren't many great-looking options for Harrington. His picks of Lowry, Garcia, and Poulter were numbers 15, 19, and 23 according to Europe's qualifying points list. The three players with the most qualifying points that didn't automatically qualify were Victor Perez, Robert McIntire, and Guido Migliozzi. Not sure those guys would have made much difference.

It's easy to say the captain's role is overblown, but that said I do think Tom Watson had a heavy hand in USA's 2014 defeat. But this year, maybe Harrington could have made a different selection or a couple of different pairings, but it certainly wouldn't have done much to close the 19-9 gap.

I'm a big McIlroy fan, one big reason is he has always been candid in his remarks and willing to shoulder any criticisms.

As far as Poulter goes, he was probably teary-eyed knowing this was in all likelihood his final Ryder Cup. Somewhat overlooked in the US blowout win is that if this was his last Ryder Cup he is closing his career with a 6-0-1 record in singles play, which is fairly remarkable.

[Will Thrasher]

The phrase "class act" is overused, and especially overused in the world of golf. But it truly applies to Rory. Impossible not to root for him.

[Kalen Braley]

Even thou he's said (and done) a few questionable things in the past, good to see he's willing to re-evaluate his position on things...

2009: “[The Ryder Cup] is not a huge goal of mine. It’s an exhibition at the end of the day…in the big scheme of things it’s not that important an event for me. Obviously I’ll try my best for the team – but I’m not going to go running around fist-pumping.

https://golf.com/news/rory-on-the-record-mcilroys-10-most-memorable-quotes-from-10-years-on-tour/

[Rob Marshall]

I would ask him why Sergio sat the afternoon of the first day. That would be my only question. Also they need more captains picks like the US has. Never heard of Weisburger.

Rob are you serious? They had 4, just not as much of TV targets as the US side.Europe vice captains selected by Padraig Harrington: Robert Karlsson, Luke Donald, Martin Kaymer, Graeme McDowell

Captains picks not assistant captains. So yes I’m serious.   

[Rob Marshall]

Even thou he's said (and done) a few questionable things in the past, good to see he's willing to re-evaluate his position on things...

2009: “[The Ryder Cup] is not a huge goal of mine. It’s an exhibition at the end of the day…in the big scheme of things it’s not that important an event for me. Obviously I’ll try my best for the team – but I’m not going to go running around fist-pumping.

https://golf.com/news/rory-on-the-record-mcilroys-10-most-memorable-quotes-from-10-years-on-tour/

The players for both sides give up a week or more of there time. Every year for the US team with the presidents cup. If they lose they get crucified by the media.

If a quarterback throws a bad interception in the 4th qtr of the Super Bowl they’re going to get beat up by the media but at least they are getting paid for it. These guys volunteer their time then get the shit kicked out of them if they lose.Look what happened after Paris. Then you get a guy like Phil throwing his captain under the bus or Reed with Spieth. The pressure on these guys has got to me unbelievable. Is it really surprising that Rory lost it on TV?

I guess my point is that it really is an exhibition. The players deserve to be cut some slack. It’s golf. The game is really Fing hard even for the best players in the world.  Look what happened to Fitzpatrick coming in. Can’t imagine what they are writing about him across the pond.

[JLahrman]

...

[Jeff Schley]

I would ask him why Sergio sat the afternoon of the first day. That would be my only question. Also they need more captains picks like the US has. Never heard of Weisburger.

Rob are you serious? They had 4, just not as much of TV targets as the US side.Europe vice captains selected by Padraig Harrington: Robert Karlsson, Luke Donald, Martin Kaymer, Graeme McDowell

Captains picks not assistant captains. So yes I’m serious.   

Gotcha.  Yeah the captains picks would be interesting to see a W/L/T breakdown of all the captain's picks broken down by year.

[Sean_A]

First, congratulations to the US team for a tremendous showing this weekend.  Since I have dual citizenship I am neutral in these matches and just want to see good golf.


Rory is one of the classiest golfers and people around. He is very highly respected and liked by the USGA staff and has been very helpful in the past when asked.


Brooks behavior in this situation was very poor.  No problem with asking for the second opinion, but his reaction was uncalled for.  It was not a moment that would deserve the ultimate penalty of a DQ though in my opinion as it was not a repeated series of actions.  Unless the Ryder Cup Committee had put in a separate ode of conduct allowing for lesser penalties there is no other action allowed at that point. Even though this wasn’t a PGA Tour event, they are still probably going to fine him.


As for Sergio laughing and spitting his drink, he ask certainly tried to push the envelope on rulings in the past and has exhibited much more childlike behavior at times so he shouldn’t be too judgmental.

I think Sergio was laughing at something Brooks said. They looked at each other in acknowledgement. I also think Sergio disagreed with the ruling. He was whispering to Brooks quite a bit.

This entire incident is one of the oddest I have seen in pro golf.

Ciao

[Rob Marshall]

He was laughing at Brooks comment “have you seen me hit a shot”. Brooks looked at him and smiled when he spit out the water.

[jeffwarne]

I would ask him why Sergio sat the afternoon of the first day. That would be my only question. Also they need more captains picks like the US has. Never heard of Weisburger.

Wiesberger finsished third in the Race to Dubai in 2019 and has 8 Euro wins.has shown up in Majors as well.


It's not like we use our captain's Picks that strategically or shrewdly, skipping only two player straight off the points list(Reed-for several legit reasons)and Webb because, well, we simply don't need or want anymore Ryder Cup experience. (love Webb, but rookies with no ghosts were the the way to break the losing culture)
IMHO six Captains Picks is too many, and pus too much on the Captain and devalues the Points list.
But I thought Stricker handled his picks perfectly(I would've taken Kisner but his Schoeffler pick worked out great-and there were several others just down the list from Schoeffler who also fit the bill).


As far as Stricker being Captain again, I think that would be a poor play, for him and the PGA.
Zero to gain for Stricker, and the Captaincy is to reward deserving careers.
Tiger in Italy?(With Stricker as the man behind the curtain)
Phil at Bethpage?

[Mark Smolens]

Wondering why Tiger before Phil (45 yo vs. 51 yo)? Plus, I'm thinking Tiger still thinks he can make the team in Italy!

[Tom_Doak]

Even thou he's said (and done) a few questionable things in the past, good to see he's willing to re-evaluate his position on things...

2009: “[The Ryder Cup] is not a huge goal of mine. It’s an exhibition at the end of the day…in the big scheme of things it’s not that important an event for me. Obviously I’ll try my best for the team – but I’m not going to go running around fist-pumping.

https://golf.com/news/rory-on-the-record-mcilroys-10-most-memorable-quotes-from-10-years-on-tour/

He was not wrong to say that in 2009.  He was being honest; that’s how he felt. And I admire him most of all for that.  His feelings about it are much different today and he was honest about sharing those, too.

[jeffwarne]

Wondering why Tiger before Phil (45 yo vs. 51 yo)? Plus, I'm thinking Tiger still thinks he can make the team in Italy!

For starters, Phil is still playing, and nearly made the team as a major winner.
Second, Phil at Bethpage just makes sense 

[Rob Marshall]

Wondering why Tiger before Phil (45 yo vs. 51 yo)? Plus, I'm thinking Tiger still thinks he can make the team in Italy!

For starters, Phil is still playing, and nearly made the team as a major winner.
Second, Phil at Bethpage just makes sense 

Fred then Tiger, or no chance for Fred? I know the young guys like Phil but is he really a leader?

[jeffwarne]

Wondering why Tiger before Phil (45 yo vs. 51 yo)? Plus, I'm thinking Tiger still thinks he can make the team in Italy!

For starters, Phil is still playing, and nearly made the team as a major winner.
Second, Phil at Bethpage just makes sense 

Fred then Tiger, or no chance for Fred? I know the young guys like Phil but is he really a leader?

I meant because the New York fans love Phil

[Rob Marshall]

Wondering why Tiger before Phil (45 yo vs. 51 yo)? Plus, I'm thinking Tiger still thinks he can make the team in Italy!

For starters, Phil is still playing, and nearly made the team as a major winner.
Second, Phil at Bethpage just makes sense 

Fred then Tiger, or no chance for Fred? I know the young guys like Phil but is he really a leader?

I meant because the New York fans love Phil

I got that.


It looks like Couples isn’t going to get a shot at it.  Zach Johnson and Lee Westwood look to be the next two.

[Jeff Schley]

I don't like captains going back for seconds myself. It is a reward for a distinguished career and it is a shame that such notable omissions have happened: i.e. LARRY 3x major winning NELSON. This is a travesty to not having been selected as he is class through and through. At least Hale Irwin got the President's Cup captaincy.


Speaking from the US perspective, in the modern era 1979 forward for RC: Nicklaus, DLIII and Watson have done it twice. Jack we can understand certainly and maybe Watson, but who are you leaving out at the expense of going back for seconds? Unfortunately, some very accomplished golfers with Nelson topping the list. With all due respect to Stricker, he didn't win a major and Nelson despite a late start in his career (for serving his country no less in Vietnam) won 3 majors. Two were PGA's from goodness sakes. I doubt this wrong will be corrected, but we can only hope that the non-Tiger's / Phil's from the US side will still get their chance in the future.

[jeffwarne]

I don't like captains going back for seconds myself. It is a reward for a distinguished career and it is a shame that such notable omissions have happened: i.e. LARRY 3x major winning NELSON. This is a travesty to not having been selected as he is class through and through. At least Hale Irwin got the President's Cup captaincy.


Speaking from the US perspective, in the modern era 1979 forward for RC: Nicklaus, DLIII and Watson have done it twice. Jack we can understand certainly and maybe Watson, but who are you leaving out at the expense of going back for seconds? Unfortunately, some very accomplished golfers with Nelson topping the list. With all due respect to Stricker, he didn't win a major and Nelson despite a late start in his career (for serving his country no less in Vietnam) won 3 majors. Two were PGA's from goodness sakes. I doubt this wrong will be corrected, but we can only hope that the non-Tiger's / Phil's from the US side will still get their chance in the future.

+1
and you didn't even mention Nelson's impeccable Ryder Cup record, established post Europe joining the fray.
Jack, Watson? Fine with them as multiple time Captains.






A wrong could be righted, and
there aren't a lot of recent candidates from winning teams....