[Tommy Williamsen]

Along the lines of Sean's comments, I think I'd rather see long swathes of sand rather than traditional looking bunkers.

[Kalen Braley]

In light of Marks comments, we have a massive amount of well-traveled folks in this group.

I'm curious if anyone who has played in Ireland, and then Whistling Straits, thought to themselves "This reminds me of such and such course in Ireland"?


Or was Pete relying on the average 'Murican whose never been to Ireland, much less can find it on a map! 

[Tim Gavrich]

Whistling Straits has too many bunkers certainly, but what saves them is that they have much maintenance on most of them. You look at them and they are mostly unkept around the slopes. I think many are not even raked I believe. So unnecessary.

I'm envisioning someone standing in MoMA and saying a particular Pollock painting "has too much paint on it certainly."


Whistling Straits is entirely manmade, with almost 4 times the number of bunkers of any other golf course on the planet. Isn't it sensible to take that as an indication that something else is at work in the formulation of the course, beyond the pursuit of/adherence to golf architecture conventions? It seems obvious to me that Pete Dye threw convention out the window in significant ways at WS, so why judge it like this?


More than just about any golf course I've ever played, Whistling Straits is a piece of land art. That doesn't mean it's beyond all criticism, but I think it needs to be thought of a little differently.


Kalen, WS reminds me of Ireland the way a Giacometti reminds me of actual people.

[Kalen Braley]

Whistling Straits has too many bunkers certainly, but what saves them is that they have much maintenance on most of them. You look at them and they are mostly unkept around the slopes. I think many are not even raked I believe. So unnecessary.

Kalen, WS reminds me of Ireland the way a Giacometti reminds me of actual people.

Had to look that one up.  Perfect analogy!

P.S.  I'm not being critical of Pete, because it truly does look like a very interesting course with stunning views and probably a bucket list course.  Its just the over-the-top marketing in calling it an Irish course...I mean c'mon man, just stop!

[Mark_Fine]

Kalen,
I have played WS several times over the years.  Right after it was built, it was quite contrived and clearly needed time for many of the cone shaped mounding to age and soften.  It has gotten much better over time but I have always been of the opinion, if you never get to Ireland, WS will at least give you some idea of what you might encounter. 


We can critique Pete’s attempt all we want but what he did there is still pretty amazing.  There is a lot of creativity.  It is without question one of the best truly “manufactured” golf courses on the planet.  It is up there with Shadow Creek which was also “built” from nothing. 


One more comment; while some may think the bunkers that are “out of play” may impact weaker golfers, they actually help golfers find balls that would otherwise be lost in the hay.  Most times you hope your wayward shot finds sand so you can find your ball and try to recover. 

[jeffwarne]

WS definitely answere the question for me that many smaller bunkers is waaaaay better than super large bunkers.
Random lies make them hazards,and skill from various types of improvised lies is required.
You might be yelling "get in the bunker", but you mean "get in the right part of the bunker".

[Brad Lawrence]

Volume of sand seems like the better measurement. What courses have more sand than Pine Valley? And 50 bunkers can collectively play the same role as one lake.

[Sean_A]

WS definitely answere the question for me that many smaller bunkers is waaaaay better than super large bunkers.
Random lies make them hazards,and skill from various types of improvised lies is required.
You might be yelling "get in the bunker", but you mean "get in the right part of the bunker".

Most of the nasty lie bunkers are for shots well off line onto different levels of the holes. For most handicap players playing from fairway down in those spots is very difficult. Some (probably at least 100!) of those low bunkers are saving bunkers should the rough be nasty.

Ciao

[Pete_Pittock]

When a course is being reworked and bunkers removed, is either of these options preferred, or strictly up to the owner/operator.


There are two bunkers near the optimal landing area and one is to be removed. Do you choose the
(a) bunker in play for the scratch player, possibly lowering the course rating, or
(b) bunker in play for the bogey player, possibly lowering the slope rating.

[Niall C]

WS definitely answere the question for me that many smaller bunkers is waaaaay better than super large bunkers.
Random lies make them hazards,and skill from various types of improvised lies is required.
You might be yelling "get in the bunker", but you mean "get in the right part of the bunker".

Jeff


I take your point about the size of WS bunkers being more of a hazard however I think the other aspect that makes them more of a hazard than the standard tour bunker is the sand, it's apparently variable depth and how it is maintained. I can't recall seeing so many "poor" bunker shots from the pro's. I'm not sure that is necessarily a good thing as on balance I think I'd prefer to see them exhibit their skill rather than a slash hit and hope.


One thing I'm sure about is how strange these "micro" bunkers look in an expansive landscape.


Niall 

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