The "Affordable" $150 green fee

[Jeff Shelman]

The $150 number certainly allowed Golf Mag to include more usual suspects that the masses have heard about.


I would have been more interested in some lesser-known places, but it's their magazine and they can do what they want.

[Garland Bayley]

...
With respect to the imbecilic morons who run California, we are so far behind the curve in terms of building dams - or even sane water management policy - it will take 10 years to catch up at best.
...

Should you look into it, you might find that the Bureau of Reclamation, and the Army Corps of Engineers built out almost all or all of the feasible dam sites back in their hay day. When they pushed into questionable projects, they had dam failure and their run was done.

I think the two obvious remaining feasible sites are the Grand Canyon and Yosemite Valley.

[Craig Sweet]

No more dams please!!!   There isn't a need for more dams. There is a need for a farm policy that supports localized, small scale farming. It is ridiculous that veggies and meat travel thousands of miles before they reach your store. And, there is a need for sensible development....NO building in deserts!  Besides, in 50 years the current deserts will not be livable at all.

[Jeff Schley]

I enjoyed the raters confidential comments section, with some posters here chiming in. Well done.
Some in Illinois I would add as 150 is the threshold are: Kankakee Elks, Mistwood, and although I'm not personally a fan of Cog Hill I think they are under or right at 150.

[Kalen Braley]

No more dams please!!!   There isn't a need for more dams. There is a need for a farm policy that supports localized, small scale farming. It is ridiculous that veggies and meat travel thousands of miles before they reach your store. And, there is a need for sensible development....NO building in deserts!  Besides, in 50 years the current deserts will not be livable at all.

Craig,

if I recall correctly, you live in Montana.  Are you going without veggies for 7-8 months of the year?  Or building giant indoor growing farms at enormous costs to construct and heat during the frigid winters?

[Garland Bayley]

Kalen,

Have you not heard of sauerkraut?
I grew up in the frozen north eating preserved vegetables from our summer garden.

Time to widen your vision Kalen.

No more dams please!!!   There isn't a need for more dams. There is a need for a farm policy that supports localized, small scale farming. It is ridiculous that veggies and meat travel thousands of miles before they reach your store. And, there is a need for sensible development....NO building in deserts!  Besides, in 50 years the current deserts will not be livable at all.

Craig,

if I recall correctly, you live in Montana.  Are you going without veggies for 7-8 months of the year?  Or building giant indoor growing farms at enormous costs to construct and heat during the frigid winters?

[Craig Sweet]

Kalen , we have Montana grown veggies 12 months of the year.  Many farmers do heat poly tunnels and houses on either end of the summer season.  The current food system is not sustainable and will not survive the drought nor the next pandemic.   Watch the beef prices soar this winter. There is no hay due to drought, so hay prices have gone through the roof,  I know ranchers that are shrinking their herds.  The guys selling local, grass fed beef are hanging in their because they were getting higher prices going in.


Grow your own veggies....

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen , we have Montana grown veggies 12 months of the year.  Many farmers do heat poly tunnels and houses on either end of the summer season.  The current food system is not sustainable and will not survive the drought nor the next pandemic.   Watch the beef prices soar this winter. There is no hay due to drought, so hay prices have gone through the roof,  I know ranchers that are shrinking their herds.  The guys selling local, grass fed beef are hanging in their because they were getting higher prices going in.

Grow your own veggies....

Craig that's great if you have the space, resources, time, money and know-how.  But for those who don't, who live in Apartments, condos, etc, without those things are they just SOL?  Or Grandma with arthritis in both hands who can barely get out of bed in the morning, tough break? 

As much as we romanticize the rugged past of our country, living off the land was brutal with countless hardships.

P.S. I'm not saying we don't need to make big changes to our current system, but the everyone for themselves mantra, I'm pretty sure that's not it.

[Tom_Doak]

Craig that's great if you have the space, resources, time, money and know-how.  But for those who don't, who live in Apartments, condos, etc, without those things are they just SOL?  Or Grandma with arthritis in both hands who can barely get out of bed in the morning, tough break? 

As much as we romanticize the rugged past of our country, living off the land was brutal with countless hardships.

P.S. I'm not saying we don't need to make big changes to our current system, but the everyone for themselves mantra, I'm pretty sure that's not it.

It is a sign of how bad things have gotten that a plea for greater sustainability is heard as "everyone for themselves".

[Craig Sweet]

Kalen, you don’t have farmers markets down there.  Support your local farmer! Local is delicious!

[Matthew Petersen]

I enjoyed the raters confidential comments section, with some posters here chiming in. Well done.
Some in Illinois I would add as 150 is the threshold are: Kankakee Elks, Mistwood, and although I'm not personally a fan of Cog Hill I think they are under or right at 150.

Cog Hill weekend rates "start at" $159, per their web site. So it would not be eligible for the list.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, you don’t have farmers markets down there.  Support your local farmer! Local is delicious!

Hey Craig,

I love farmer markets, my wife and I frequent them often.  But in No. Utah they also don't run all year long either.

That's pretty much the point 

Kalen

[Garland Bayley]

Kalen, you don’t have farmers markets down there.  Support your local farmer! Local is delicious!

Hey Craig,

I love farmer markets, my wife and I frequent them often.  But in No. Utah they also don't run all year long either.

That's pretty much the point 

Kalen

And, Craig's point is that No. Utah farmers need to get their act together.

[Paul Jones]

I think Bandon Dunes does it fairly, rates go way up in prime season, but you can play each course for $100 and $50 (replay) in off season.  That price shoots up to $295 and ($150 replay) July - September.  Similar scale for room rates.


Here are the 2022 rates: www.bandondunesgolf.com/2022-green-fees .

[Paul Jones]

The 2 sayings I have heard for many years:


Want to make a small fortune in the golf business?  Start with a large fortune.


You have to be the 3rd person to buy a golf course out of bankrupcy to have a chance to make a profit.

[Craig Sweet]

Kalen, the larger cities in Montana have winter markets and you can buy meat, dairy, veggies, eggs...Missoula has a real good winter market!

[Sean_A]

Now we are in my territory when talking about $24 green fees. I left Michigan in 1998 and we always looked to pay $20 - 30 walking for public golf. Hell no we didn't expect high quality golf, but we did get good golf for that.

Sean when you go back to Michigan are you playing the same lower cost places?  As previously mentioned when most folks travel they aren't looking for $40 rounds.  When people are near home they know they price they are looking to pay and usually go to the nearest course that meets that price.

Quality places at the budget level are tough times to get.  My last round was at Common Ground.  I was up at 530 booking the first day times were available to the general public and couldn't get a time until 4pm (that was for a Monday as I couldn't get a Saturday time).  If I was leading the Colorado Golf Association I'd really have a hard time keeping the price as it is given the demand.

Golf is a low priority when back in Michigan. But, I have no issue playing a few old stomping grounds. None of my family or old mates are going to pay real money for golf if we do get out. If I can't get a game on a target course I tend to drift to Ann Arbor and play the UofM course because I like the course more than the cheap options and get alumni price. Plus its nice to keep tabs on the town. Bottom line is I travel a lot without playing $150 courses.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Affordable golf?
This seems pretty affordable - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9bmmAxonT-o - and the participants seem to be having fun without having to pay $150/round.
Atb

[Charles Lund]

I just got home from a two week road trip in the Pacific Northwest that ended with three nights and for days of play at Bandon, which I had not visited since 2011.


It was a tale of two trips, both positive for different reasons.  I will skip Bandon comments.


The first seven rounds were on the following courses:


1.  Gamble Sands (2 rounds)
2.  Wine Valley (2 rounds)
3.  Palouse Ridge
4.  Juniper Golf Course
5.  Pronghorn - Nicklaus Course


With a combination of a Troon West Coast Twosome Card, a two round in 24 hour reduced green fee, senior discounts, and walking rates, the most I paid for one tound was about $135 and the least was about $55.  So the average cost per round was $100.


This thread speaks to quality courses that are relatively affordable.  The longest drive was from Palouse Ridge to Bend, Oregon, necessitated by a weekend event at Wine Valley, so the route involved some backtracking. 


I've come to view my time on Doak 4 to 6 courses as time well spent.  Gamble Sands and Wine Valley aren't exactly hidden gems and are in the Confidential Guide and are worth an effort to drive from the larger airports of Seattle or Spokane.  The Nicklaus course from suitable tees was surprisingly enjoyable and didn't evoke deja vu experiences.  John Harbottle designed my home course, Gold Mountain Olympic, near where I live outside of Seattle, so playing Palouse Ridge and Juniper Golf Course held some interest.


Indian Canyon and Circling Raven are in areas where they could be included in an extended trip or maybe a couple of Portland courses for a larger loop trip.


This one trip of the two trip tale was a solid golf travel experience. 


Charles Lund

[Kalen Braley]

I've come to view my time on Doak 4 to 6 courses as time well spent.  Gamble Sands and Wine Valley aren't exactly hidden gems and are in the Confidential Guide and are worth an effort to drive from the larger airports of Seattle or Spokane.
...

Indian Canyon and Circling Raven are in areas where they could be included in an extended trip or maybe a couple of Portland courses for a larger loop trip.

Charles Lund

Charles,

Glad you enjoyed your trip.  I loved living in the area for a number of years and Wine Valley is a solid 8 in my book.

Indian Canyon has some terrific bones and would be greatly improved with a "Reno-Restoration"

P.S.  The drive in the middle part of the state takes you thru some interesting and unique land formations to boot.  https://parks.state.wa.us/225/Ice-Age-floods-in-Washington

[Will Lozier]

So, we had better start to make some drastic changes - and learn to love brown - or golf out here is going to be on life support in short order. - GP

+1, but not out of necessity (water shortages), but out of an understanding about what conditions provide the best playing characteristics...and to help conserve water and save money and..., and....

[Charles Lund]

I've lived in Washington state most of my life.  On this trip I drove on highways I had not been on before so I agree about interesting land forms.  The sites of Gamble Sands, Wine Valley, and Juniper Golf Course are wide open and not claustrophobic in any way.  Washington and Oregon courses often take a bad rap for too many trees, which is true for the western side of the states.  Wine Valley reminded me a bit of parts of Australia where I have spent a lot of time.


I have not played Indian Canyon since my college days at Gonzaga in the late 60s.  I could see adding Indian Canyon and Circling Raven to the courses I played in the first part of my trip and might look to do that next year. I consider the accessibility, relative affordability,  and quality of these courses makes a case for returning to play them regularly.




Charles Lund


quote

"Glad you enjoyed your trip.  I loved living in the area for a number of years and Wine Valley is a solid 8 in my book.

Indian Canyon has some terrific bones and would be greatly improved with a "Reno-Restoration"

P.S.  The drive in the middle part of the state takes you thru some interesting and unique land formations to boot.  https://parks.state.wa.us/225/Ice-Age-floods-in-Washington

[Bruce Katona]

1. Courses sans irrigation to save money - Back in the day, when we spent quite a bit of time studying how to more profitably run the NYC Parks Dept. golf courses and pay the City a reasonable lease rate for their assets, there were 1-2 courses on Staten Island that had naturally developed putting surfaces that required little water, as there was little money available to pay for irrigation.  Is this grass type that can be propagated and deliver a reasonably expected result for putting ? not sure...........but the the City resident greens fee (maybe $35 back then) this product on the greens was tolerable.


2. As a landscape architect with another degree in environmental sciences; the term "carrying capacity of an ecosystem" comes to mind.  I'm thinking in a progressive place like California, someone in their Department of Environmental Protection has done the research to conclude exactly what the sustainable population of the State is given is natural resources challenges with water. 


Our family just concluded a visit northern CA (SF, Sonoma, Monterey/Carmel) and the drought is certainly very real.  Given the need for water; the realization that the ecosystem has exceeded its renewable capacity for water is pretty obvious - where the only viable option may be desalination for either drinking or irrigation water.  Yep this option its costly to construct and operate, but with all of these voters and electoral votes available, the folks in DC may look to have the Feds kick in substantial funds to assist.  If not someone is going to have to be the person to tell 5-10 million people  "You need to move to another place since our infrastructure simply can't service all of you." Not a message a politician wants to deliver.