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Mike Nuzzo

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Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

mike_malone

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2021, 01:35:57 PM »
An uniquely enjoyable course was Three Little Bakers which started as Pike Creek Valley in Delaware. It rolled over the land well and had some interesting holes throughout. Too bad it’s gone.
AKA Mayday

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2021, 01:42:08 PM »
Two, come to mind: the original Prince George's Country Club. There is some question about its provenance but it was very good. I'd like to see High Pointe return. It was great fun after I figured out what it was supposed to be.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mark Kiely

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2021, 01:48:42 PM »
Quail Ranch in Moreno Valley. Doesn't seem like anything's been done with the land. It's still just sitting there but grown over.
My golf course photo albums on Flickr: https://goo.gl/dWPF9z

Thomas Dai

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2021, 02:11:12 PM »
A re-birth of the original Herbert Fowler courses at Saunton that were trashed during WW2 would be cool.
Likely a re-birth of a few courses damaged by WW1 and WW2 would be nice.
“As if by magic ……”
Atb

John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2021, 02:25:58 PM »
The Needles GC and the Royal Bembridge GC on the Isle of Wight are 2 great locations and still visible in their Victorian splendour.


Now claimed by walkers and their dogs ... and metal detector warriors leaving their pockmarks in the turf.

John McCarthy

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2021, 02:26:48 PM »
Does anyone have any photos of Mill Road Farm  easily at hand?  I have actually been on the grounds (now a forest preserve I think) in the last year.  Per a Tribune article some college kids staked out some of the holes some years ago
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Mike Worth

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2021, 02:32:36 PM »
I’ve always been a fan of Tom Doak’s Beechtree, Aberdeen Md.


It transitioned from a golf course to housing 15+ years ago.


A fellow Hidden Creek NJ member, who knew the developer, recently mentioned to me that it was always the plan that Beechtree would operate for a short period as a golf course and then transition to housing.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2021, 02:42:15 PM »

A fellow Hidden Creek NJ member, who knew the developer, recently mentioned to me that it was always the plan that Beechtree would operate for a short period as a golf course and then transition to housing.


I doubt that's true, otherwise why would they have spent so much $$$ on the clubhouse?


Maybe it was a long-term plan, but surely it wasn't as short-term as what they did.  In fact, if you look at Google Maps, the most recent image shows that the back nine is still undeveloped, fifteen years later.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2021, 03:06:03 PM »
Here's Mill Road Farm replicated from aerials before the course became NLE:


Mill Road Farm (The Albert Lasker Estate)- work-in-progress (hb-studios.com)




Also, Wayne Morrison who wrote the book on Flynn, may have pictures.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Cliff Hamm

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2021, 03:16:49 PM »
Beavertail Golf Club was a nine hole course on Conanicut Island better known as Jamestown in Rhode Island. It was designed in 1925 by Tillinghast.


In 1995 there were plans to bring it back and add nine holes. The architect was to be Steve Smyers with Brad Faxon as a consultant.   Alas, it was not to be. Given how Faxon destroyed Metacomet perhaps just as well.

Jeff Evagues

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2021, 03:29:48 PM »
Kapalua Village Course
Be the ball

Greg Clark

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2021, 04:35:01 PM »
Waterwood National in the Huntsville, Texas area on Lake Livingston.  I know that some of the home owners were attempting to "maintain" the course for their own play for awhile. No idea if that is still happening.  It was an interesting Pete and Roy Dye course that suffered due to its remote location.


Maybe let Bill Coore have a shot at his old stomping grounds.

Carl Rogers

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2021, 04:57:18 PM »
Beechtree with friend Scott Weersing was the first trip for my modest career of destination golf.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

David_Tepper

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2021, 05:30:02 PM »
What was the name of the Coore/Crenshaw course in the Florida "hill country" that never quite got off the ground? I think it was a victim of the 2008-09 housing crisis.

Bill Gayne

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2021, 05:34:57 PM »
What was the name of the Coore/Crenshaw course in the Florida "hill country" that never quite got off the ground? I think it was a victim of the 2008-09 housing crisis.


It was Sugar Loaf Mountain in Apopka.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2021, 05:44:33 PM »
This picture is posted for Mike Worth.





I played Beachtree the year it opened and had lunch with Mrs. Knott after we played. She was very proud of the course and tickled to own one. Although she didn't say anything it was my feeling that the family was in the golf business for the long haul.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2021, 05:47:03 PM »
A re-birth of the original Herbert Fowler courses at Saunton that were trashed during WW2 would be cool.
Likely a re-birth of a few courses damaged by WW1 and WW2 would be nice.
“As if by magic ……”
Atb


Thomas, do you know how the old East Course and the new East Course differed?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mike Worth

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2021, 05:58:24 PM »
This picture is posted for Mike Worth.





I played Beachtree the year it opened and had lunch with Mrs. Knott after we played. She was very proud of the course and tickled to own one. Although she didn't say anything it was my feeling that the family was in the golf business for the long haul.


When I was told the information about the developer of Beechtree always intending it for housing, I was kind of surprised. I played the course 6-7 times between 1998-2001. To me it always had the feel of a course where someone was in it for the long-haul, as you mentioned


This may have changed with the 2006 Base Closure Commission (BRAC) when Fort Monmouth NJ was closed and roughly 5000 high-paying civilian jobs were moved directly to Aberdeen


Also a bit of history behind the bag tag – –  I took the picture in 2019.


Every year I go back home to the Catskills to help an elderly friend close up his house for the winter. His son was a golfing buddy of mine before he moved to CA. So the sons golf bag was in amongst the things I needed to move to close up the house.  I snapped the bag tag pic and sent it to my friend at Hidden Creek who told me about the intent to always develop Beechtree as housing.


We hadn’t played Beechtree since 2001 I thought the bag tag was remarkably well preserved

Thomas Dai

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2021, 06:00:42 PM »
A re-birth of the original Herbert Fowler courses at Saunton that were trashed during WW2 would be cool.
Likely a re-birth of a few courses damaged by WW1 and WW2 would be nice.
“As if by magic ……”
Atb
Thomas, do you know how the old East Course and the new East Course differed?
Although I don’t have a copy there is a large size thick book by MacKenzie and Ebert detailing the history of Saunton in plans and photos. I looked through a copy in the Saunton clubhouse and it’s an impressive document (see below for link).
I can just about remember some of the differences. For example, the current chipping/practice green, which is slightly hidden away behind a high dune, was the original 18-East and the hole played in from an easterly direction (see photo below).
Two super courses now but from what I recall of the M&E book and from what I know of Herbert Fowler’s other work I suspect the two pre-WW2 courses were a bit special. I believe someone eminent at the time, might even have been Bernard Darwin, wrote that pre-WW2 Saunton was the best links in the U.K. and Harry Vardon is supposed to have said he wanted to retire there.
Atb


Link to the M&E book - https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/60040459/saunton-historic-report-2017-07


Below - photo (old b&w now coloured) showing the location of the original 18-East green.

Below - a general view photo (old b&w now coloured) across the course(s) at Saunton pre-WW2.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 06:11:37 PM by Thomas Dai »

Gib_Papazian

Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2021, 04:56:18 PM »
I noticed one of the comments in that article mentioned The Pit in North Carolina. That Dan Maples creation easily cracked my top 5 quirky, American courses most fun to play. We liked it so much, that was the unanimous choice for an afternoon round three times in one week - which in that neighborhood is saying something. Had a chance to sit down with Dan some years back - and he sorely lamented its closure. I imagine Tom Doak feels the same pangs about High Pointe. I would love to see The Pit recreated, but their marketing was awful and somehow this hidden beauty got lost in the shuffle.


The most obvious one - and I am surprised my friend David Tepper, being a fellow Olympian did not mention this immediately - is recreating the Ocean Links at Olympic. Everybody forgets the Lake was our "2nd course" - and the Ocean Links was marquee. YOu can see a couple pictures in George Thomas' book.


Horrible storms and landslides wiped it out, but Gil and Shac are hard at work, trying to come up with something comparable. Of course, we still have Raynor's plans for a "west coast Lido" hanging on the wall, sticking its tongue out at me every time I walk to my locker, but that ship sailed long ago and an actual recreation is coming.


     

Phil Burr

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2021, 05:18:48 PM »
The third and fifth photos from Ron Montesano’s “YOK 3” post this morning brought to mind Seville in Brooksville FL (at least that was its name when I played it 4-5 times).  It was as “un-Hills” as any Arthur Hills course I ever saw.  I think it’s a course worthy of resurrection.

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2021, 05:18:58 PM »
Gib,
I was going to say the same thing about Olympic's "Raynor course". If we can't get in built in real life, would love to see the video game version!!!


Other "what ifs"... how about Raynor's version/routing of Cypress Point and Flynn's CC of York.


And what about that Mackenzie course that was going to be built in Texas Hill country... El Boqueron?

Gib_Papazian

Re: "6 Six Extinct Courses That Should be Reborn"
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2021, 06:19:37 PM »
Wayne.


No video game necessary, an actual Lido is already under construction.


Here is the honest, no bullshit truth - don't believe any of the horseshit you read about Old Macdonald. The fact is, Mike Keiser's original conception was to recreate Lido - and even went so far as to fly Uncle George in his plane to Bandon to see if there was a way to make it fit. Doak was deeply involved from the get-go, but I don't think there was a way to - for instance - magically create another Reynold's Channel.


So what is there now is a fantastic, modern version of what Tom, Urbina and George thought C.B.might have designed in the modern era. I was there on opening day, first playing a few holes with Tom - and then teeing it up with George, tottering along in a golf cart. It was beyond even my most fantastical psilocybin trip . . . . and when I finally get to play an actual Lido re-creation, my brains might explode, just from excitement.


As for Olympic, last I heard before my latest bout with Mr. Spine Surgeon, Gil and Shac were mulling over a stack of possible routings for our new Ocean Course. How much of the original Ocean Links they eventually end up creating (or re-creating) is anybody's guess, but I know we will get their very best effort and expectations are ionospheric.   


       
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 12:00:13 PM by Gib Papazian »

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