[Adrian_Stiff]

Loch Lomond is the one that rules by popularity, though the Kings Course is a good second and is the course I would rather play. I dont think the Boat is really anywhere near the best inland course in Scotland, however it is a course I would love to play again and I remember my round very fondly and even the names of some of the holes I think the first was Johns View (named after the pro) so considering I played the Boat in 73 it has had a big impact into my memory.

[Brian_Ewen]

I would prefer Forfar to several of the courses mentioned here.

I also prefer the Queens over the Kings at Gleneagles !

[Niall C]

Loch Lomond is the one that rules by popularity, though the Kings Course is a good second and is the course I would rather play. I dont think the Boat is really anywhere near the best inland course in Scotland, however it is a course I would love to play again and I remember my round very fondly and even the names of some of the holes I think the first was Johns View (named after the pro) so considering I played the Boat in 73 it has had a big impact into my memory.

Adrian

I think your comments on the Boat hit the nail on the head with a lot of the Scottish courses. I will concede that some, not all, probably don't deserve the tag of being great. Of course it depends on your definition of great but for me the dreaded phrase "championship test" comes into it somewhere. On that basis quite a lot of these courses don't stand up, particularly as a test even for the local pro circuit. However for the rest of us duffers they still offer some fantastic golf and provide more pleasure than some of the acknowledged greats.

Niall

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think these two holes are about the most similar I have ever seen, I thought it was the same hole at first.




[/quote]

[Ally Mcintosh]

I liked the Dukes re-do a lot...

I think Tim Liddy's bunkering is some of the most intelligent I've seen on a modern course anywhere in Britain or Ireland...

Ally

Could you expand on the intelligent comment. Interested to hear your thoughts. To me it looked like window dressing in that the course is now the course is a kid on heathland where as before it was a kid on links. Not that that makes it bad course in whichever guise you've seen it in. But interested to hear why you think the bunkering is intelligent.

Thanks

Niall

Hi Niall,

Given that I play courses without strokesavers and only cursory glances for the 150 yard stake, I have never been deceived for distance (on account of the bunkering) so much in a non golden-age course... Part of that is just to do with the overall scale of the Liddy bunkers... But that scale suits the site in my opinion, much more so than smaller pot bunkers.... But a lot is the positioning and sightlines created not just on approach but from the tee... On my first play I thought it was too much but on subsequent vists / plays, I've found it more and more rewarding.... The course itself is still a tough walk but one worthy of a Top-10 scottish inland I would have thought...

With regards to the "no heathlands in Scotland", there are no dry heaths in Scotland as far as I know... They are all more wet moor style courses... Even if that is false, there are so few of them and the quality is at least a tier below that of their the English equivalents (with possible exception of Gleneagles)... Hence my generalisation...

I don't think we can argue against England winning hands-down on the Heath front...

Rgds,
Ally

[Niall C]

Thanks Ally,

The new bunkering looks good to me but as I said the previous style was OK too. Having been brought up on a parkland course with revetted bunkering, as were the other parklands round about, I have no aversion to that style on a non-links course. As you say, the scale of the bunkering fits but then I think it did before as well. And it certainly is a tough walk. In my numerous plays I eventually capitualted and took a buggy because the course was just too tiring to be fun. And that was when I was fit.

Niall

[Jim McCann]

Niall

Regarding your thoughts that the Roxburghe is not all that highly rated, I was amazed when the recent Rolex
Top 1000 golf courses of the World book gave it a mark (along with 24 other Scottish tracks) of 80/100.

Only 32 Scots courses were ranked higher at 85+/100 (and 36 others were ranked 75/100).

So, in the eyes of the Rolex authors, there were only 32 better tracks in all of Caledonia - quite astonishing in my
opinion.
 

[Niall C]

What a great Q. I'm finding it very hard to separate a wide number. I do have a special place in my heart for the King's, but it's far from perfect.
Ladybank must be up there somewhere too, but to my mind it's a tad boring compared to others.
Taymouth Castle has capabilities.
Loch Lomond? Pretty stupendous if a smidgin too much of an 'American', rather than a 'Scottish' 'experience'.

Boy, this is tough!

FBD.

Mr Bonnar


Care to expand on your comments in the second sentence 


Niall

[Marty Bonnar]

Obviously prior to £250grand’s worth of reshaping.
I did say it was tough!

Bloody pointless exercise…
F.

[Jim_Coleman]

Golspie?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ally

Also on your best inland in England thread, you make the statement that Scotland doesn't have any heathland courses. Interested to know how you would describe a lot of the Highland courses in that regard. I'm thinking of the likes of Forres, Elgin, Granton, the Boat, Gleneagles etc.

Niall

Hoping Ally see's this.   


I have played Elgin and seen (from the sides) Gleneagles and The Boat and if you have "Pine and Heather" and the balls running well, they sure  look like Heathland to me?  (When you think of some of the land that passes for Links is the definition of Heath being to strictly applied here?)

[Ally Mcintosh]

No lowland, dry heath, Tony… When I think of  the classic heathland courses, I think of the Surrey sand belt. Scotland, Wales and Ireland don’t have these courses and very little of that habitat.

[Thomas Dai]

No lowland, dry heath, Tony… When I think of  the classic heathland courses, I think of the Surrey sand belt. Scotland, Wales and Ireland don’t have these courses and very little of that habitat.

Blairgowrie (Rosemount)?
atb

[Niall C]

No lowland, dry heath, Tony… When I think of  the classic heathland courses, I think of the Surrey sand belt. Scotland, Wales and Ireland don’t have these courses and very little of that habitat.

Hmmn.... that seems to me like the question of when is a burn a burn ? Answer: when it's in Scotland.

Niall

[Niall C]

Golspie?

Jim

While Golspie is a terrific course you couldn't call it an inland course.

Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

No lowland, dry heath, Tony… When I think of  the classic heathland courses, I think of the Surrey sand belt. Scotland, Wales and Ireland don’t have these courses and very little of that habitat.

Hmmn.... that seems to me like the question of when is a burn a burn ? Answer: when it's in Scotland.

Niall

OK, well to be more precise, it is different flora and fauna on a south of England lowland, dry heath to a Scottish upland heath, whether dry or wet. Soil also sandier.


So they are both heaths but they are different.


Burn = stream in all but name.


That said, I am far from an expert beyond a bit of high-level study in the past.

[Niall C]

Ally


If you're not an expert then I'm certainly even less so. I did however refer to my Robert Price and he has Elgin and the Gleneagles courses as "parkland" with Rosemount "parkland/woodland". I have to say, those courses are very different to the courses in the central belt that I'd call real parkland.


Niall

[Sean_A]

Ally

Also on your best inland in England thread, you make the statement that Scotland doesn't have any heathland courses. Interested to know how you would describe a lot of the Highland courses in that regard. I'm thinking of the likes of Forres, Elgin, Granton, the Boat, Gleneagles etc.

Niall

Hoping Ally see's this.   


I have played Elgin and seen (from the sides) Gleneagles and The Boat and if you have "Pine and Heather" and the balls running well, they sure  look like Heathland to me?  (When you think of some of the land that passes for Links is the definition of Heath being to strictly applied here?)

Isn't what you are describing moorland or upland heath? To me it's not the same, but to be honest, in the hands of golf clubs most of these particular golf environments have blurred lines. Unless it's very wet or dry, many of these places share playing characteristics. In truth, clubs have failed to properly protect their golf environments. The result I a mass of hybrid courses leaning much too much toward parkland.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean

Speaking as an amateur, the characteristics in question really boils down to the vegetation and that I think was the point Tony was making. When you have heather, silver birch, scots pines and fine grasses in abundance then it really isn't a parkland, or at least not in my book, but as I said I'm not an expert.

Niall

[Sean_A]

Sean

Speaking as an amateur, the characteristics in question really boils down to the vegetation and that I think was the point Tony was making. When you have heather, silver birch, scots pines and fine grasses in abundance then it really isn't a parkland, or at least not in my book, but as I said I'm not an expert.

Niall

I am not claiming these are parkland courses. I am saying the influence of parkland golf has bastardized nearly all the heathland/moorland courses to the point that in earnest these are hybrid courses. Some less so than others, but the point stands.

BTW, Gleneagles didn't strike me as heathland.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Worth pointing out that as trees are either planted or self-seeders are allowed to grow and grow then the heather covered heathy areas gets smaller and smaller. Heather, like a lot of plants, doesn’t like to grow under or near trees. Where courses have removed trees the heather has usually regenerated.
Atb

[Robin_Hiseman]

Gleneagles is a moorland.


Specifically it is laid out on the kame and esker outwash deposits of a retreating glacier.


It is also, for me, the best inland golf venue in Scotland. I've always found that when I've been out on the Queen's that I look over at the King's and wish I was playing that and then when I've been on the King's I feel the same about the Queen's. As a 36-hole package they are hard to beat. I don't hate the PGA, but it is the third of the three.

[Duncan Cheslett]

I’ve managed to score a round at Gleneagles next month with my wife as guests of a member.


We have a choice of courses. My instinct is the Queens as Jayne would find it more to her liking, but she is happy to play either.


The PGA does not feature in our decision.


Thoughts?

[Robin_Hiseman]

Duncan


The Queen's will be perfect. It's not long, but you won't feel short changed. It's the prettier of the two and a really good test. It only becomes short with the sequence of holes towards the end, which includes a couple of Scotland's best par 3's. I hope you find it on a sunny day. Heaven if you do.

[Jeff Schley]

Wait there are inland courses in Scotland???

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