Cincinnati OH Golf Guide

[Steve Lang]

Jason,


Your lament is not unique to Cinti, yeh I don't miss those 3+ hr 9 hole league nights, even in rural little Lima, OH... to which I offset by getting in 9, mornings before work in like 1:15 when I first lived there... and to me worse of all was when weekend weather doesn't cooperate either...  true drag being a working stiff with only isolated windows to play


that's why with friends from Toledo, Fostoria, Columbus, and Cinti we'd go traveling to remote counties and look for the hidden gems... best finds were in Moore Co in North Carolina!  True wanderlust...


Not sure why anyone north of the Ohio River would even think about fast and firm other than from baked clay soils ground up by the Wisconsin glaciation... and areas with some scattered sand lenses.  So unfortunately virtuous golf is not likely found till one approaches the Indiana / Michigan border and really much northward, plenty of green grass though, eh?

Play on, plenty of tees to continue the good fight on

[Jason Thurman]

Steve, for comparison, I've lived in Cincinnati for 9 years and spent about 7 nights in Lima over the course of 2012-13. I've played more impromptu 9s after work at Hawthorne Hills (RIP - stopped for 9 at least half a dozen times) than I have on public courses in Cincinnati during posting season (twice, not counting nights when I've subbed for friends in a league).

You want to understand why Cincinnati golfers always sound a little depressed? It's not that we're the only place with golf leagues, or the only place where soft and slow wins out over firm and fast, or even the only place where a cup of chili at the turn is a mistake. But it is a place where all the little things that make golf so great can be a little harder to come by than they should be, and when you roll it all up it's a little frustrating. Especially when we start comparing ourselves to our friends in Lexington, Indianapolis, Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton... not so much Louisville to be fair.

[Jeff Shelman]

I think the lists here are pretty good.


I lived in Cincinnati for a couple of years in the late 90s, have gotten back several times since and would move back in one second for the right job. I'm pro-Nati.


A couple of questions/statments for the Cincinnati crew:


- Why does it feel like everyone kind of craps on Maketewah? I think they have done some good work there and think it's in that group of privates behind Camargo, Coldstream and Hyde Park.
- Has anyone seen the work at Coldstream and has a POV?
- I haven't seen Terrace Park, how is it? Any good at all?
- I do think that TPC River's Bend is pretty good for a TPC course. I realize it's in the middle of nowhere, but it isn't bad at all
- Played Traditions a couple of years ago and the place feels just a little run down. When I lived there, it was definitley a golf-first place with a good vibe. Doesn't feel that way any longer.

[JLahrman]

- I haven't seen Terrace Park, how is it? Any good at all?

I've played it probably a half dozen times, though not in at least 20 years. Before they redid the stretch of holes 5-6, which looking at the scorecard has now apparently become holes 11-13, for anyone familiar with the course. Looks like the old back nine has become the front nine, and the old front nine has been reordered with the old 5-6 becoming three holes, and the old par-3 9th is gone, with a long walk around the range to get from the 15th green to the 16th tee? Is that right?


Based on my recollection I'm not sure I would call it good, probably OK for a round but not a lot to see GCA-wise. I've never played Hyde Park or Clovernook but based on the feedback of others here I would think it would take a backseat to those courses.

[Jason Thurman]

- Why does it feel like everyone kind of craps on Maketewah? I think they have done some good work there and think it's in that group of privates behind Camargo, Coldstream and Hyde Park.

I played Maketewah pretty often in 2016 and 2017 (I had access to a corporate membership - if that's one of your job requirements I can give you a recommendation and we can work on getting you back this way). I agree that it belongs in that second tier and the renovation work has been well done. It's certainly a decent course. I think the green complexes really shine, it has a handful of really good holes, and I like the way it captures some of the really funky quirk (3, 8, 11, 16, 17) that you see on a lot of Cincinnati's older courses given our surprisingly severe topography, without overdosing on it to the degree that a CCC or Losantiville sometimes do.


I like it, but it doesn't charm me. I'd attribute that to a few things. For one, the maintenance meld tends toward the "punishing" side. To their credit, they've built a reputation as one of the better "players' clubs" in town and they're the home course for Xavier which probably demands providing a certain caliber of "test of golf." But it tends to play "tough" more than it plays "fun."


The quirky holes also aren't necessarily as fun as a quirky hole could be. Seriously, is there a less fun tee shot in golf than the 8th at Maketewah? It's one thing to try to take on a bunker, or even fire one a little too close to the Old Course Hotel where an errant ball will bounce harmlessly off some bulletproof glass or whatever. It's a whole different thing to tee off with a lot full of your friends' luxury whips sitting about 10 feet right of the landing zone.


Ultimately though, I'd put it right there in that deep second tier of solid courses around town. I wouldn't think you were crazy if you thought it was a top four course in the city. But I also don't think it's crazy to put it, like, 15th, depending on personal taste. Like, Avon Fields is sort of a goat-tracky executive course and somebody looking for the "right answer" wouldn't rate it above Mak, but I sorta feel like I just ENJOY it more (assuming I'm not in the middle of a 5 hour round).

[Criss Titschinger]

Seriously, is there a less fun tee shot in golf than the 8th at Maketewah?

Number 11 and 16 at Western Hills come immediately to my mind. I dread those more than 8 at Mak.

I'm way late to this party.

Can't believe Fernbank didn't get any mention. You want quirk? Crossing fairways, a long, blind par 3 with a mound in front, and an OB fence immediately on the other side of the green, and two holes that essentially share a fairway? Or what about Pebble Creek, which may have the worst routing of any golf course I've ever played. Nice owner; great clubhouse, good conditions; that's about all the nice I have there.

I've been fortunate to play Avon Fields a couple times recently with a group that rented the course out. It was a blast to play in that format, making me wish we could find some investors to give it a nice nip/tuck in a Langford & Moreau style. I suspect I may not be as enthusiastic about it when full tee-times come back.

Neumann has sneaky good greens. Some of the best I've played in the city.

I like Mak more than others in the Cincy group. It's a great club and I do like the course. I just enjoy playing others like Hyde Park and Clovernook more. Obviously, Camargo takes the cake. I would love to see Coldstream after their renovation. I didn't play it before, but from what I've seen/read, it seemed a very typical Dick Wilson penal course. I've really enjoyed the Foster/Hargrave renovations I've played at Moraine and Columbus CC, so I have high expectations.

Yes, the lament of weekday league play at public courses in Cincinnati. As others noted, it forces one who is serious about golf, but has limited time, to look into the private option. But most of the private options in town are bloated country clubs that have way more amenities than I'm looking for.

I belong to the same club Thurman does. Doak 3 course; Doak 8 culture. While I enjoy our Spartan club, I rarely turn down an outside play request. And I keep telling Thurman that if Clovernook ever gets that renovation done and prettys up 'dem bones, I may be looking there instead. Or, maybe more of a regional membership somewhere nicer, given the amount I already don't play. I mean, I probably won't; but I'll keep threatening that I will.

For 2021, I really want to check out Terrace Park and Kenwood. Kenwood has put a lot of money into their facility, course and otherwise, and I'm interested to see the end result of their course renovation. I'm sure it's Diddel in name only, though hopefully not like how Western Hills is Bendelow in name only, but is really a smorgasbord at this point. Terrace Park did some touch ups as well. It looks like a fun, flattish course; which would be a good respite from the hills we climb on Miami View's front 9.

Cincinnati cannot claim Moraine. Moraine is firmly Dayton, a city for which I think course-for-course is better than Cincinnati. Springfield is also Dayton. Columbus has enough good clubs; it doesn't need Springfield.

[Jason Thurman]

Seriously, is there a less fun tee shot in golf than the 8th at Maketewah?

Number 11 and 16 at Western Hills come immediately to my mind. I dread those more than 8 at Mak.

After playing Western Hills for the first time on Saturday, I'll die on this hill.


I get what you're saying. The roads at Western Hills are much tighter to the ideal line on those two holes than the parking lot on 8 at Mak. But...

• The two holes at Western Hills are both protected by a heavily tree-lined boundary that will knock most errant shots down before they do damage. Whereas there's nothing along the way that will stop a parking-lot-bound ball at Mak from getting there.
• Even during the busiest of times, the streets surrounding Western Hills only have cars covering about 10% of their surface area at any given moment in time. Whereas that parking lot at Mak is 50+%.
• Anything you would damage at Western Hills is outside the fenced boundary of the club, and someone who wants to murder you after hitting their car will have to find their way into the club and past the 13 year old with the nightstick who handles security and then explain themselves clearly enough to get assistance in finding the likely culprit. Even if you smash somebody's windshield, there's a good chance they never find you and yell at you about it.
• The average value of a car driving down any given road near Western Hills is far lower than the average value of a car inside the parking lot at Maketewah.

It should be noted that my opinion might have something to do with my currently standing -1 lifetime on 11 and 16 at WH, vs roughly +13 lifetime on 8 at Mak.


A couple other notes relevant to the rest of this thread:

• As mentioned, I played Western Hills for the first time on Saturday. And I gotta say - I REALLY enjoyed it. It has really interesting terrain, wild old school greens with varied shapes and sizes (some TINY ones!), and a lot of varied hazards around greens. I thought it had a lot of really attractive holes and I enjoyed trying to navigate the challenging driving lines. Be advised that tree haters will think it's way overtreed, but I was surprised to find that a feasible recovery shot usually existed even after the most errant of shots. And it's a very "Cincinnati" course - funky terrain, classic-era layout, not too long but able to provide challenge by demanding accuracy and smart play around greens, no shortage of quirk - I thought it had a lot to like. Our whole foursome did, actually. Probably didn't hurt that we've been dry and hot lately and it played very firm and fast - I can't imagine that's the norm, but it really made the rumbling terrain sing.
• I also played Traditions on Friday, also for the first time. And once again - I liked it! Cincinnati has a lot of courses that suffer because of challenging terrain and lack of width - it often feels like you're playing along narrow ridges with imperfect shots getting harshly repelled into the woods. But Traditions has broad shoulders. It's a modern layout with plenty of challenge, but there's plenty of room to play and a lot of attractive holes. It's not especially strategic off the tee, but I thought it had a surprising amount of subtlety around the greens and as a first-time player I found myself unknowingly out-of-position a few times. I can't wait to get a second crack at the 8th hole, in particular.

Neither of these courses are world-beaters, but they're fun days out. I think we sometimes lament Cincinnati as a golf town and it's fair to point to a lack of real upper-tier options architecturally, but there's a deep lineup of good, varied courses scatted about the area too.