[Jim Tang]

I'll add my name to the list for Pinehurst No. 4.  I remember it being the biggest disappointment for me in some time.  Perhaps that is my fault for anticipating the round too greatly.  It felt as if the redesign was not complete, with the final holes not matching the style and look of the earlier holes.  Maybe I'm wrong on that as I only have one round there.

[Jon Sweet]

I'll take it to mean that "get" means understand moreso than "see the value of.."

In that vein I fully get places like Bethpage Black, etc. because I understand what that presentation or design is attempting to do even though I may have quibbles with the set up.

So, without further ado:

Camargo

The routing is superb but the templates achieve a 50% hit rate with me. The original holes are in the good-to-great category but so much there seems unfinished or untended in terms of design.

I don't understand how a course can hinge on two *great* par 3's, one good par 3 and a bland-to-me Biarritz. The punchbowl fails to inspire and then holes like 12 and 17 just feel incomplete. Mow/grass lines seem way off and do more to take you away from a great site than force you to integrate with it.

“Get” in this scenario refers to universally loved or praised by most but you just don’t see what all the fuss is about.

[Tim Martin]

Wannamoisett.


Humorless, unrelenting, penal, with a course that grows more contrived and oppressive as it progresses through the back nine.


Ducking for cover now.

Mike-The outgoing nine is incredibly difficult and by the time you get the par five on the 17th hole chances are you are in deep water with no life jacket. It’s a masterful routing on a small piece of land but the same can be said for Triggs or Metacomet(RIP) except both are way more playable every day. I had some rounds that I played decent but after adding them up couldn’t get it inside 80 over fifteen or so plays with a par of 69. I got a call from a guy on his way back to NJ some years ago who had just played and said it was hard but he didn’t know what the big deal was about the second hole as he made a five. I said that before he posts that on his Facebook page he should know that the hole is a par four.

[Kalen Braley]

Wannamoisett.

Humorless, unrelenting, penal, with a course that grows more contrived and oppressive as it progresses through the back nine.

Ducking for cover now.

Mike,

This may be the most surprising post yet.  From what i've seen in pics and otherwise it looks to have plenty of old-timey goodness, quirk, and charm, even if it does test you often.

Even Golf's Most Highly Anointed (Ran) says this in his Course Review: "Nothing is forced or contrived"

[MCirba]

Tim,

I agree with all of your remarks and it sounds like you may agree with mine. 

Kalen,

Ran loves every golf course.      No, seriously, it beats you around the head and slaps your ears.   It is a wonder of a routing but to accomplish it there are a number of really awkward doglegs and tight corners.   

[Jon Sweet]

Tim,

I agree with all of your remarks and it sounds like you make agree with mine. 

Kalen,

Ran loves every golf course.      No, seriously, it beats you around the head and slaps your ears.   It is a wonder of a routing but to accomplish it there are a number of really awkward doglegs and tight corners.

Quirky, dog legs, tight corners?
Perfect.

[Daryl David]

Spyglass
Gamble Sands
Erin Hills
Tobiano (Canada)
The National (Canada)
Trevose (England

[Mike_Trenham]

Banff -  I just don’t see the excitement.  The fairways have minimal movement as do the greens.   My guess is lots of golf nuts have not spent enough time in far reaches of National Parks and are enamored by the surroundings lifting its ranking.  Or maybe the severity of the surroundings did not allow me to appreciate the subtleties of Thompson’s design.

[James Brown]

Augusta National.  Loved being their for thr first time in 2019 for the Masters.  Found the course SO familiar after watching for my whole life, but also thought that I didn’t need to play the course, since it was so clearly set up as a course for the Masters and nothing else.  Would I drop everything to go play there?  Yes.   But it’s not a goal.  A spectators course.

[Jon Sweet]

Augusta National.  Loved being their for thr first time in 2019 for the Masters.  Found the course SO familiar after watching for my whole life, but also thought that I didn’t need to play the course, since it was so clearly set up as a course for the Masters and nothing else.  Would I drop everything to go play there?  Yes.   But it’s not a goal.  A spectators course.

How you saw it isn’t how it is. Members tees are very playable. I seem to recall them being about 6400 or 6500 give or take. Longest 3 for members maybe being 190 to 200 depending on the pin on 4. Greens are a ton of fun to putt and chip around. Par 5s can be reached by a half decent player. Without the scoreboards and the grandstands it’s a much different place. Rare to find a flat lie and you’re always having to control where you miss. Must have caddied it 60 to 70 times. Truly a course you need to learn which I appreciate.
With that being said, give me a choice of you only play one of the two and it would be the only chance I’d be allowed to play either for the rest of my life, I’d prefer Merion. And I’ve already played Merion.

[Ira Fishman]

I'll add my name to the list for Pinehurst No. 4.  I remember it being the biggest disappointment for me in some time.  Perhaps that is my fault for anticipating the round too greatly.  It felt as if the redesign was not complete, with the final holes not matching the style and look of the earlier holes.  Maybe I'm wrong on that as I only have one round there.

Jim,


You articulated one of the aspects of the course that felt off to me.


And great meeting you a couple of weeks ago.


Ira

[Dan_Callahan]

It's not that I didn't or wouldn't enjoy playing at Dornoch. It's a cracking course and an evocative place to play - but what I honestly don't get are the 'one of the very best courses in the world' rankings that RDGC perennially attracts.

Interesting how differently people see that layout. Dornoch is actually my favorite course in the world. I wonder if part of my love of it has to do with playing it on an absolutely perfect July afternoon when I was pretty much the only person on the course. If there were groups on every hole, maybe I wouldn't have liked it as much? Hard to say, but for now it is at the top of my list and I'm excited to go back to play the new hole.

[Will Lozier]

Augusta National.  Loved being their for thr first time in 2019 for the Masters.  Found the course SO familiar after watching for my whole life, but also thought that I didn’t need to play the course, since it was so clearly set up as a course for the Masters and nothing else.  Would I drop everything to go play there?  Yes.   But it’s not a goal.  A spectators course.

How you saw it isn’t how it is....With that being said, give me a choice of you only play one of the two and it would be the only chance I’d be allowed to play either for the rest of my life, I’d prefer Merion. And I’ve already played Merion.

 

[Tim Leahy]

Shadow Creek in LV. I watched all the 18 hole rounds on TV this year and don't see any thing great. Sure it was built on flat desert land and looks like a mountain course but I wouldn't pay a $100 let alone $600 to play it. It reminds me of Maderas golf course and Aviara in SD as well as many courses near Tahoe that you could play for much less with just as challenging layouts.

[Jon Sweet]

Augusta National.  Loved being their for thr first time in 2019 for the Masters.  Found the course SO familiar after watching for my whole life, but also thought that I didn’t need to play the course, since it was so clearly set up as a course for the Masters and nothing else.  Would I drop everything to go play there?  Yes.   But it’s not a goal.  A spectators course.

How you saw it isn’t how it is....With that being said, give me a choice of you only play one of the two and it would be the only chance I’d be allowed to play either for the rest of my life, I’d prefer Merion. And I’ve already played Merion.

 

🤷🏻‍♂️

[Jim Tang]

I'll add my name to the list for Pinehurst No. 4.  I remember it being the biggest disappointment for me in some time.  Perhaps that is my fault for anticipating the round too greatly.  It felt as if the redesign was not complete, with the final holes not matching the style and look of the earlier holes.  Maybe I'm wrong on that as I only have one round there.

Jim,


You articulated one of the aspects of the course that felt off to me.


And great meeting you a couple of weeks ago.


Ira

Ira - It was great to meet you and hopefully you enjoyed your time at Ballyneal.  I saw your earlier thread about your time there.

[Bill Gayne]

Earler this week took the scenic route down the Oregon Coast on the 101 and stopped in at Florence Golf Club (FKA Sand Pines) because I had read much about the course over many years on GCA with most of it being severely negative. I normally don't seek out courses like this but went there with an open mind that things could have changed. The architectural shortfall of the golf course is well documented. The place appears to be running on a low budget and the staff is working hard to hold it together.


However, like others I don't get how a site of such good quality didn't yield a better golf course.

[Tom_Doak]

Earler this week took the scenic route down the Oregon Coast on the 101 and stopped in at Florence Golf Club (FKA Sand Pines) because I had read much about the course over many years on GCA with most of it being severely negative. I normally don't seek out courses like this but went there with an open mind that things could have changed. The architectural shortfall of the golf course is well documented. The place appears to be running on a low budget and the staff is working hard to hold it together.


However, like others I don't get how a site of such good quality didn't yield a better golf course.

I am not sure the site was as good as everyone assumes, but it’s hard to tell after they dug a big pond in the middle and did so much earthwork around the edges.

[Tom_Doak]

It's not that I didn't or wouldn't enjoy playing at Dornoch. It's a cracking course and an evocative place to play - but what I honestly don't get are the 'one of the very best courses in the world' rankings that RDGC perennially attracts.

Interesting how differently people see that layout. Dornoch is actually my favorite course in the world. I wonder if part of my love of it has to do with playing it on an absolutely perfect July afternoon when I was pretty much the only person on the course. If there were groups on every hole, maybe I wouldn't have liked it as much? Hard to say, but for now it is at the top of my list and I'm excited to go back to play the new hole.

I think Dornoch is so beloved because it gives Americans all the water views they want while still playing like a true links.


I am starting to think North Berwick’s rise in the rankings is for similar reasons.

[Ira Fishman]

I'll add my name to the list for Pinehurst No. 4.  I remember it being the biggest disappointment for me in some time.  Perhaps that is my fault for anticipating the round too greatly.  It felt as if the redesign was not complete, with the final holes not matching the style and look of the earlier holes.  Maybe I'm wrong on that as I only have one round there.

Jim,


You articulated one of the aspects of the course that felt off to me.


And great meeting you a couple of weeks ago.


Ira

Ira - It was great to meet you and hopefully you enjoyed your time at Ballyneal.  I saw your earlier thread about your time there.

Jim,


Not only did I “get” Ballyneal, I wished I could pack it up and take it with me home. As you know, what a fantastic course and wonderful place. I am hard pressed to think of another course with such a combination of elevation changes, varied routing, and brilliant green complexes. Plus everyone was so genuinely friendly and welcoming.


Ira

[Sean_A]

It's not that I didn't or wouldn't enjoy playing at Dornoch. It's a cracking course and an evocative place to play - but what I honestly don't get are the 'one of the very best courses in the world' rankings that RDGC perennially attracts.

Interesting how differently people see that layout. Dornoch is actually my favorite course in the world. I wonder if part of my love of it has to do with playing it on an absolutely perfect July afternoon when I was pretty much the only person on the course. If there were groups on every hole, maybe I wouldn't have liked it as much? Hard to say, but for now it is at the top of my list and I'm excited to go back to play the new hole.

I think Dornoch is so beloved because it gives Americans all the water views they want while still playing like a true links.


I am starting to think North Berwick’s rise in the rankings is for similar reasons.

Or maybe NB is so loved because it has one of the best and most compelling back nines on the planet. The views don't hurt though. A lot of panels have become more open to odd holes...which should always have been the case considering the stature of TOC.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean, I love North Berwick but there is an argument that it is starting to fly too high. Perhaps it’s the sea views & adjacency (as Tom states), perhaps it’s a nostalgia towards anything CBMac (Redan), perhaps it’s a hanging on to individual “quirky” features (the Green on 16, a wall on 13, a blind approach to a seaside green on 14)… In some ways, it’s a mini-TOC but without all the great ground movement and greens. And without the Home of Golf tag.


And I say that with it being one of my favourite courses.


Every generation of rankers has one or two darlings that the “group” embrace… I’m just happy this generation has “discovered” North Berwick rather than a course that could be truly undeserving.

[Sean_A]

Sean, I love North Berwick but there is an argument that it is starting to fly too high. Perhaps it’s the sea views & adjacency (as Tom states), perhaps it’s a nostalgia towards anything CBMac (Redan), perhaps it’s a hanging on to individual “quirky” features (the Green on 16, a wall on 13, a blind approach to a seaside green on 14)… In some ways, it’s a mini-TOC but without all the great ground movement and greens. And without the Home of Golf tag.

And I say that with it being one of my favourite courses.

Every generation of rankers has one or two darlings that the “group” embrace… I’m just happy this generation has “discovered” North Berwick rather than a course that could be truly undeserving.

Where is NB ranked?

TOC and NB have their flaws, but the upside far outweighs these shortcomings. I place NB somewhere between 4 and 15 in GB&I. Which means I fully understand if anybody ranked NB in any of those slots.  I would be very skeptical of a GB&I ranking that had NB outside the top 20...same for TOC.  I don't know if that is too high for you or Tom, but to some degree, our preferences influence our opinions of what is considered best. I highly value the unusual in design. There are many great holes which have similar versions throughout the world, but relatively few unique holes which are great, or at least compelling. One thing I think folks fail to fully appreciate are the several holes which are not part ofNB's lore. The 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 10th, 11th and 17th are all excellent holes and very different from each other. My bottom line, I get NB, views and all. 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

NB was outside the World 100 until 12 years ago and is now in the 30’s. I’m more inclined to hope that the earlier rankings were off and the latest one is closer because I really do love the course…. But there is no doubt that it is a current day darling.


Incidentally, seeing as Dornoch was the other discussion point, I adore it too… But at World Top-10, it is also a current day darling.

[Sean_A]

NB was outside the World 100 until 12 years ago and is now in the 30’s. I’m more inclined to hope that the earlier rankings were off and the latest one is closer because I really do love the course…. But there is no doubt that it is a current day darling.

Incidentally, seeing as Dornoch was the other discussion point, I adore it too… But at World Top-10, it is also a current day darling.

I probably have a bubble attitude toward NB as it was one of the first courses I chose to play in GB&I 30 years ago. Just doing guesswork, if NB is top 5-15 GB&I, it probably should be top 50 world...exactly where it lands doesn't much matter. I too have always thought very highly of Dornoch...didn't know it wasn't always very highly ranked.


Ciao

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