[John Kavanaugh]

Why were you still within shouting distance when he reached the green?

[Kyle Harris]

How did someone bump a thread from 1987 here?

I’m 42, that puts me dead in the middle of the get off my lawn 60 plus and the look at my 53 tattoos and the smart phone surgically attached to my hand 20 somethings. I’m just old enough to not use the phrase “bump” for a thread but understand what it means, I think.
I enjoy the dress code, I take my hat and sunglasses off when the round is over and look my playing partners in the eye and shake their hand.
There’s something to be said for tradition, respecting the course, the members, and those that came before you. I hope there’s room in the game to keep these things because tucking your shirt in, looking your best, being respectful are values that will never hurt you moving forward.
Guess I’m of the mind the things people say need to be removed in order to grow the game are the things I think sets it apart and makes it special.

I’m all for tradition too.


Why not mandate we respect the traditions of pre-18th century golf and dress accordingly?


There’s a 500+ year history of golf and yet we mandate based on a 30-year slice of it as “tradition.”


If you read the Feature Interview on this site for Linc Roden and purchase his self-publishing book there is a photo on the inside back cover of him playing golf at Huntington Valley CC in the 1950s in a white t-shirt.


Maybe your view of the past isn’t as correct as you think? No, it certainly isn’t.

[Kyle Harris]

Linc Roden, disrespecting golf by wearing a t-shirt and still thinking the stymie was a good rule.


https://twitter.com/SirPuttsalot/status/1418972134685253632?s=20

[David Ober]

How did someone bump a thread from 1987 here?

I’m 42, that puts me dead in the middle of the get off my lawn 60 plus and the look at my 53 tattoos and the smart phone surgically attached to my hand 20 somethings. I’m just old enough to not use the phrase “bump” for a thread but understand what it means, I think.
I enjoy the dress code, I take my hat and sunglasses off when the round is over and look my playing partners in the eye and shake their hand.
There’s something to be said for tradition, respecting the course, the members, and those that came before you. I hope there’s room in the game to keep these things because tucking your shirt in, looking your best, being respectful are values that will never hurt you moving forward.
Guess I’m of the mind the things people say need to be removed in order to grow the game are the things I think sets it apart and makes it special.

I’m all for tradition too.


Why not mandate we respect the traditions of pre-18th century golf and dress accordingly?


There’s a 500+ year history of golf and yet we mandate based on a 30-year slice of it as “tradition.”


If you read the Feature Interview on this site for Linc Roden and purchase his self-publishing book there is a photo on the inside back cover of him playing golf at Huntington Valley CC in the 1950s in a white t-shirt.


Maybe your view of the past isn’t as correct as you think? No, it certainly isn’t.

Amen.



A) I love "nice, dressy clothes." Always have.
2) I've been a member at (mostly top 2,753!) private clubs my entire adult life
d) I will wear whatever a host tells me to wear -- assuming I have enough time to comply (Caveat! If Benzian says "Ober, I heard you are in Santa Barbara! Come tee it up with us at Valley Club today!" but I happen to be wearing jeans and a t-shirt and my tee time is in 20 minutes and knew I had a change of clothes in my suitcase, I would say "On my way, Jim!" and get to the course, head to the locker room, and change my clothes there!*
vi.) I will never understand why we don't now treat golf as an "outdoor" activity

• I mean, why don't we wear woolen jackets, a waistcoat, and a tie today?

*Actually, I would text him and say: "I'm in! But I'm in jeans and a t-shirt! Will barely make it! Can I change clothes in the locker room???"

[Rob Marshall]

I’ve changed my clothes in the car on the way to the course….

[Greg Smith]

The best place I ever played, the guest policy was clearly delineated.  It requested clothing changes, etc in the locker room only.  And there was a list of things that were banned, which would include the garb in the OP.  So, my arrival format was:  golf gear with long pants; dress shoes; and a blazer I'd picked out which went well with the shirt and pants.  My clubs were collected by the attendant at the curb, leaving me holding a small "golfer's gym bag" (with Taylor Made logo) which contained:  golf shoes, extra socks, a neatly folded backup shirt (in case I needed a clean one for lunch), and a nice wooden hanger just in case I needed it.  I didn't; nice wooden hangers were provided, like everything else.


Upon arrival I was on "the list" and shown straight to the locker room, where they had a row of lockers set up for guests.  I stowed my things in there and was directed by the attendant to the point where I could find my host and the caddies for the day.


The guest policy helped me perfectly anticipate and set up for the experience, as a good guest policy should.  The OP's friend must follow such a document to the letter.

[Jon Sweet]

I’ve changed my clothes in the car on the way to the course….

Quasi guilty. I’ll often change the shoes prior as opposed to getting out and going in and changing them. Hate to be a bother.

[Jon Sweet]

The best place I ever played, the guest policy was clearly delineated.  It requested clothing changes, etc in the locker room only.  And there was a list of things that were banned, which would include the garb in the OP.  So, my arrival format was:  golf gear with long pants; dress shoes; and a blazer I'd picked out which went well with the shirt and pants.  My clubs were collected by the attendant at the curb, leaving me holding a small "golfer's gym bag" (with Taylor Made logo) which contained:  golf shoes, extra socks, a neatly folded backup shirt (in case I needed a clean one for lunch), and a nice wooden hanger just in case I needed it.  I didn't; nice wooden hangers were provided, like everything else.


Upon arrival I was on "the list" and shown straight to the locker room, where they had a row of lockers set up for guests.  I stowed my things in there and was directed by the attendant to the point where I could find my host and the caddies for the day.


The guest policy helped me perfectly anticipate and set up for the experience, as a good guest policy should.  The OP's friend must follow such a document to the letter.

It’s good to feel like a king occasionally. Love it.

[MCirba]

I’ve had to drive guests to Walmart to improve their stylings before rounds at my own club.

John,


Hopefully it wasn't to the Sporting Goods Department.

[Jon Sweet]

I’ve had to drive guests to Walmart to improve their stylings before rounds at my own club.

John,


Hopefully it wasn't to the Sporting Goods Department.

Wonder if they still sell those t shirts with the glitter and dragons on them people wore to the clubs back in the day?

[Mike Schott]

Mike, I have heard that before, and I understand the point of view, but I disagree with it.


I grew up as blue collar as you can get...both of my parents were immigrants and my dad was a bus driver.  So as a "general golfer" as you describe, I was as "general" as it gets.


I had a friend in HS that was a member of a great private club, and even I, with my limited means, knew that I had to dress better there, than I would in my normal escapades sneaking on Golden Gate Park par 3, Lincoln Park, or Harding.


It is just lazy and inconsiderate to expect that a dress code is "outdated" or "shouldn't apply to me". 


As a family we have visited the Alisal Ranch more than a dozen times.  For dinner, a jacket is required.   That requirement is repeated to guests over and over...so no one should be surprised.  But still, some guys show up at the dining room without a jacket, and often wearing denim.  They have a closet of blue blazers for that purpose, but the fact that they even need it is amazing to me.


Anyway, my view is that if you are visiting a private club, dress appropriately.  It isn't a big ask.

Respectfully, I never said the rules shouldn’t apply to me. It’s that many of the rules seem to be designed to be stuffy for the sake of stuffiness. Then again you have to play by the club’s rules and if you don’t want to you can choose not to play these courses. I’m thankful for the members who have invited me to their clubs.

[Kyle Harris]

The best place I ever played, the guest policy was clearly delineated.  It requested clothing changes, etc in the locker room only.  And there was a list of things that were banned, which would include the garb in the OP.  So, my arrival format was:  golf gear with long pants; dress shoes; and a blazer I'd picked out which went well with the shirt and pants.  My clubs were collected by the attendant at the curb, leaving me holding a small "golfer's gym bag" (with Taylor Made logo) which contained:  golf shoes, extra socks, a neatly folded backup shirt (in case I needed a clean one for lunch), and a nice wooden hanger just in case I needed it.  I didn't; nice wooden hangers were provided, like everything else.


Upon arrival I was on "the list" and shown straight to the locker room, where they had a row of lockers set up for guests.  I stowed my things in there and was directed by the attendant to the point where I could find my host and the caddies for the day.


The guest policy helped me perfectly anticipate and set up for the experience, as a good guest policy should.  The OP's friend must follow such a document to the letter.

It’s good to feel like a king occasionally. Love it.

I don’t know of many kings that would be dictated to on such terms.


Or did you mean the club?

[Kyle Harris]

The devastating thing to me is that when someone questions the exigence of a rule or "tradition" they are immediately cast into the pot of "the rules shouldn't apply to me!" category.

No.

Things evolve. Or maybe they don't?

QED: Linc Rodin disrespecting the game, his home club, and all of its traditions while laying a stymie during a year in which he qualified for the US Amateur.

[Mike_Trenham]

At my club over the past 30 years the dress code for the caddies has become much more restrictive and much more relaxed for the members.

[SL_Solow]

Hard to believe the thread continues.  Not a very difficult problem.  Anyone is free to criticize rules.  However, if you choose to accept an invitation, you are not one who makes the rules so you are obliged to abide by the rules.  If they are offensive, (and some may be deemed as such although those are not likely to be related to dress) don't accept the invitation.  I have been invited to homes where the decor is not to my taste.  I never comment.  If the host insists on expressing offensive comments, I will let him/her know that I am offended and if the remarks continue, I leave.  Guests don't make the rules.  We can discuss what rules should be adopted but one can gravitate to a club that fits their views.

[JMEvensky]

Hard to believe the thread continues.  Not a very difficult problem.  Anyone is free to criticize rules.  However, if you choose to accept an invitation, you are not one who makes the rules so you are obliged to abide by the rules.  If they are offensive, (and some may be deemed as such although those are not likely to be related to dress) don't accept the invitation.  I have been invited to homes where the decor is not to my taste.  I never comment.  If the host insists on expressing offensive comments, I will let him/her know that I am offended and if the remarks continue, I leave.  Guests don't make the rules.  We can discuss what rules should be adopted but one can gravitate to a club that fits their views.

Exactly. I was wondering how the late, great Bob Huntley would've responded to this thread--pretty much like this I think.

[Kyle Harris]

Hard to believe the thread continues.  Not a very difficult problem.  Anyone is free to criticize rules.  However, if you choose to accept an invitation, you are not one who makes the rules so you are obliged to abide by the rules.  If they are offensive, (and some may be deemed as such although those are not likely to be related to dress) don't accept the invitation.  I have been invited to homes where the decor is not to my taste.  I never comment.  If the host insists on expressing offensive comments, I will let him/her know that I am offended and if the remarks continue, I leave.  Guests don't make the rules.  We can discuss what rules should be adopted but one can gravitate to a club that fits their views.

Exactly. I was wondering how the late, great Bob Huntley would've responded to this thread--pretty much like this I think.

Frankly, there are two architecture tie-ins here - one direct, the other not so much.

Also, often times the messages are for the lurkers and not the respondents.

Dress codes are increasingly archaic, and their enforcement as elucidated in the OP even more so. The policy is bereft of common sense.

Dear Lurker,

Golf, which are you likely beginning to enjoy to the point that you are researching some of it's finer points like Golf architecture, is an ancient game that touches upon humanity's very basal needs/urges in a much less aggressive way than hunting.

Golf is separate from the institutions that play it. Some of those institutions have rules, which were implemented for various reasons, that will be defended by mythos. The photo I posted proves this mythos. While common courtesy dictates that yes, you follow the rules of any private institution you wish to patronize, common decency dictates that you should ask why and that if you have anything to meaningfully contribute (we will need those people in the future when all of us die off!) you might begin to attempt to change that/those policies and attitudes.

That is why this thread persists. It's not for you. It's for them.

[Kyle Harris]

Also, let's let Mr. Huntley rest in peace.

His time is mercifully in the past.

[Tommy Williamsen]

At a few of the clubs where I was a member, dress codes were revised and codes became more restrictive: don't wear a hat backwards, tuck shirt in, no cargo shorts, and no hats in the grill room (offender buys drinks for the room), although mock turtleneck shirts were allowed.

[SL_Solow]

Kyle,
 I appreciate your sensitivity toward growing the game.  I hope your efforts go beyond these posts.  But I have a simple question; are you advocating ignoring rules if you are an invited guest?  In the alternative, are you advocating changes in rules at clubs which you believe are overly restrictive?  Incidentally, if you are interested, my club has a relatively relaxed dress code.  Except for certain charity events and weddings I haven't seen a coat or tie in years so my views are little influenced by my personal preferences.

[Tim Martin]

Collared shirt, no jeans and your hat worn with the bill in front isn’t that hard. For those that want to die on the hill of cargo shorts have at it. Finally let me know when somebody says no to Garden City GC because they have to wear a blazer.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,
 I appreciate your sensitivity toward growing the game.  I hope your efforts go beyond these posts.  But I have a simple question; are you advocating ignoring rules if you are an invited guest?  In the alternative, are you advocating changes in rules at clubs which you believe are overly restrictive?  Incidentally, if you are interested, my club has a relatively relaxed dress code.  Except for certain charity events and weddings I haven't seen a coat or tie in years so my views are little influenced by my personal preferences.

I rather clearly and concisely said in multiple posts that I am not advocating for ignoring the rules.

I'm generally okay with dress codes. I am not OKAY with holding this up as some modicum of respect for the traditions of the game. It isn't and that is utter bullshit. The game has a 500 year history that transcends multiple eras of decorum, dress, tradition, and courtesy. Furthermore, it is a WORLDWIDE game. Embrace the diversity.

That's why I post that photo of Linc Roden in the T-shirt. It was acceptable then. What is this "tradition" you speak of?

Or call it what it truly is: a form of pretense.

[Kyle Harris]

Collared shirt, no jeans and your hat worn with the bill in front isn’t that hard. For those that want to die on the hill of cargo shorts have at it. Finally let me know when somebody says no to Garden City GC because they have to wear a blazer.

I say no to Garden City GC because it's a Men's Club. It's 2021. Grow up.

[Dan_Callahan]

Had to wear a blazer for lunch at one course. Didn't have one, and they very kindly found one for me. No big deal. Great lunch. No sandals/flip flops allowed at another club. No big deal. On my way to a third club, I was told they definitely don't want you changing your shoes in the parking lot, so I pulled over before I got there to put my shoes on.

If it were up to me, I'd have no issue with flip flops, I'd allow shorts and t-shirts in the dining room for lunch, and I really don't give a crap about changing shoes in the parking lot. But if that's what a course deems appropriate, so be it. Not a huge hassle for the opportunity to play some great, great courses.

Cargo shorts on the other hand ... good lord. They should be banned from all walks of life. It boggles my mind that Obama didn't have an advisor with the guts to tell him his cargo shorts are hideous.

[Kyle Harris]

Had to wear a blazer for lunch at one course. Didn't have one, and they very kindly found one for me. No big deal. Great lunch. No sandals/flip flops allowed at another club. No big deal. On my way to a third club, I was told they definitely don't want you changing your shoes in the parking lot, so I pulled over before I got there to put my shoes on.

If it were up to me, I'd have no issue with flip flops, I'd allow shorts and t-shirts in the dining room for lunch, and I really don't give a crap about changing shoes in the parking lot. But if that's what a course deems appropriate, so be it. Not a huge hassle for the opportunity to play some great, great courses.

Cargo shorts on the other hand ... good lord. They should be banned from all walks of life. It boggles my mind that Obama didn't have an advisor with the guts to tell him his cargo shorts are hideous.

Maybe Obama did and the President kindly suggesting the advisor was full of it!

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