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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
  I’ve been told that they are all dolts!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 09:21:07 AM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Could be you…

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Could be
AKA Mayday

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
I played with one in early June.
Great guy.
Late 60's.
Played close to scratch.
Played 30 days in a row!


Enjoyable experience.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Brad Klein recently started a thread the got zero replies. Says a little something about the power of the golden ticket.

Gib_Papazian

Some of us take our position on the panel deadly serious, think carefully about our reviews and write cogent explanations and comments, explaining why we came up with the evaluations we did.


Most GD Panelists (and GW, too) I have found to be thoughtful, articulate and with a broad background and knowledge base.


But you cannot possibly assemble a panel the size it has grown to and expect everybody is going to possess the high standard Professor Whitten held us to. 


The problem is, the tiny percentage of ignorant, poorly behaved, entitled douchebags along for the ride in the basement, spray the rest of us with their fetid idiocy.


But the same can be said for virtually every organization. In fact, we have several members in the Treehouse I'd like to drop-kick out the window, but then again, I am sure some of those fellows feel the same about me.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 12:55:42 PM by Gib Papazian »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Being kicked off a panel doesn't make you a bad person.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Come to think of it that was the second one this year.
AKA Mayday

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rater enabler.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Has 1000 greens eliminated the need to be a rater? Can’t you just chum up members willy nilly?

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2021, 02:40:38 PM »
Has 1000 greens eliminated the need to be a rater? Can’t you just chum up members willy nilly?


Don't you still need to belong to a club somewhere to join 1000 greens? 
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2021, 10:23:40 AM »
MM, we've played before, right?  Why are you surprised?


John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2021, 11:47:38 AM »
Has 1000 greens eliminated the need to be a rater? Can’t you just chum up members willy nilly?


Don't you still need to belong to a club somewhere to join 1000 greens?


Digest should partner with 1000 greens. 95% of all raters I know are members of better clubs than they are rating. Eliminate the dirty side of freebedom. 

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2021, 11:57:45 AM »
I don't agree with the numerous criticisms of raters which come up often. Some could think a rater is the supposed 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2021, 12:06:29 PM »
It’s all changed.  Vloggers have sucked up most of the hate. Making fun of raters is like giving shit to the dude that still goes to work in an office. We all play a role. Some antiquated, some underhanded, most inconsequential.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2021, 01:15:25 PM »
We all play a role. Some antiquated, some underhanded, most inconsequential.


Heavy stuff, JK, and so early in the day.



A number of years ago I read of a poll that asked Journalism students why they chose their field of study.  The most common, near-the-top answer of 70% of the respondents was that they want "to change the world".  With a world population approaching 8 billion, whatever youthful exuberance and delusions of self-importance are demonstrated by this reasoning apparently more than offset a rather obvious understanding of scale, human behavior, and how the world works.


Yet there is some hope for those who are able to conquer their narcissism to a manageable level.  Our need for significance and recognition in a large, competitive world can be somewhat satisfied by taking a bunch of good, mostly inconsequential actions- in effect, similar to the concept of death by a thousand cuts, but in a positive direction.


An example in the current golf environment, my companions always rake bunkers beyond the tracks we cause though these often look like herds of elephants went through them.  We fix several ball marks on the greens, and otherwise tidy up the course.  Though we haven't seen evidence that this has prompted others to do the same, it is the right thing to do and perhaps it will rub off, albeit in inconsequential ways.     

Gib_Papazian

Putting aside trying to sell more magazines or ads, going through the largely irrelevant exercise every couple years to determine - for instance - whether PV has been surpassed by Augusta or Shinnecock Hills, the real usefulness of the various panels is to identify terrific courses you probably never heard of.


It can also save you from wasting your time and quatloos on shitty, overpriced, ham-handed CCOF's. Barny is right in the sense that most of the raters I personally know play out of solid clubs - or semi-private tracks with excellent architecture.


And it certainly is not the Golden Ticket it once was . . . . NGLA does not need or want a conga-line of newly minted conde nast newbies, hyperventilating at the statue of C.B. in the library, snorting up the crab and macaroni lunch.


I have spent more time the last five years enduring scalpels and epidural catheters being shoved in my spine than swinging a golf club, but always focused more on Best in State, because the real fun is uncovering a hidden gem of real merit. It took me a long time to finally realize the peeps in our Treehouse - really and truly - are an intellectual epicenter of golf design.


99.9% of the Coors Light punters will NEVER, EVER play Oakmont or Mid Ocean - or could even find Fishers Island on a map. Nearly all the jockeying for position in the top 50 is really a fairly capricious mathematical exercise in splitting hairs. Fine for a lusty, martini fueled grillroom throw-down, but ultimately no more interesting than the Ginger vs. Mary Ann discussion.


But if you find yourself in Boulder City, NV and don't feel like having your asshole rerouted to the tune of $449.00 to play a bad Rees Jones course with a fancy waterfall, you can drive 5 more minutes and play a bulletproof track - dripping in strategic content - for $80 at Boulder Creek GC. It is right there on the list.


To me, that is what has become the purpose of the panel, to get a reasonably well researched straw poll - so the readership does not have to wade through a bunch of bullshit ads and pictures, only to arrive and be subjected to another Algie Pulley or Casey O'Callaghan train wreck.


I do think our panel has become somewhat diluted over the decades - especially with newbies lacking the experience to draw a firm line between marginal, okay, good and great - but like our education system, you just have to take into account grade inflation.


And be careful about calling us "dolts" big boy, I'll match cards with anybody (except Tom D.) on architecture or the history of different classical strategic arrangements.


And dear friend Barny, you are right, everybody plays a role. Yours is resident Cane Toad, spitting pithy poison on the hoi polloi, even though - as a practical matter (like me) - you are generally one phone call away from access to nearly every top golf course in America, whether on a panel or not.                 


 


 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 11:26:43 AM by Gib Papazian »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2021, 07:33:42 PM »
MM, we've played before, right?  Why are you surprised?


  Lou,


 I didn’t know you were a rater but you’re certainly intelligent, open minded, and good looking.
AKA Mayday

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2021, 10:12:44 AM »
Thanks Mayday (or is it Maddog?).  Don't know about the first two, but you're now the second person to note the third (my mother being the other).


Gib P,


No doubt that the large growth in numbers at least at two of the magazines is driven by the economic necessity of that business.  I suspect that the staff is trying hard to carefully select the best candidates to fill their rosters.  I understand that there is no shortage of applicants, and hopefully, including many highly qualified ones.


Training is then a key.  Having fresh blood and the normal enthusiasm when first joining the panel (sans the cynicism that sometimes sets in after a few years) can probably help to overcome the travails of the learning curve.  I am generally optimistic about the process going forward.


As to the "Golden Ticket", I never looked at it as such and no doubt that it is becoming as you described.  And that is OK.  There are many courses worth seeking that are avoided by the "belt-notchers".  Having become more resistant to the "big ask", I am enjoying some of the off-the-path courses. 


Recently, upon Pete Pittock's recommendation, I played Copper Valley near Copperopolis.  I doubt that it is your cup of tee, but I had a wonderful time hitting all sorts of shots on a decent routing with wonderful elevation changes and engaging green complexes.  In need of a complete bunker renovation and some serious drainage work, the course nonetheless was compelling (even at nearly 100°).  If it was located in the Dallas area, it would be operating at capacity.


 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2021, 12:02:19 PM »
Not a fan of rater “if” speak. It came to a head with “If I lived closer to Kingsley...”


Maybe people in Dallas are just stupid.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2021, 12:54:27 PM »
Maybe people in Dallas are just stupid.


And yet, the smart people keep on coming and coming, whining often, but seldom leaving.  Those entrenched in the blue states are probably comforted by the self-serving notion that as a result of the diaspora, the IQ of both regions is being elevated.  I am sure that you're noticing some of this in central FL- more polite, well-off members with a full set of teeth who rake bunkers, fix ball marks, throw their trash in the waste containers, and otherwise play at a pace perfectly suitable to you.  ::)

What is happening to our housing market in Texas is astonishing.  Great for folks who've owned for a while and are ready to relocate to less desirable areas; not too good for young people trying to get their adult lives going.

Gib_Papazian

Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2021, 02:41:54 PM »
Lou,

What you played was FKA "Saddle Creek" - originally designed by Carter Morrish (if memory serves). Actually, I have made a special trip to drive into the foothills and play it several times. Yes, it has some unusual quirks, but it passes the architectural interest test (worth the drive) because nearly every hole contains one or more strategic element to keep things interesting.


There have been water and maintenance challenges, but you know me well enough that as long as the conditioning or presentation of the golf course is good enough not to contradict the basic design intent of each hole, I could give a fuck less if there is some dead grass or ratty bunkers out there.

The course winds its way through nature, far from any population center, the cabanas are beautifully done - and the grub menu has enough hoochie-koo bells and whistles (along with well-done American fare - with a well thought-out wine list) that wifey happily tags along. If you are flying solo (as a golfer), the spa is not a bad place to warm up your road sugar for some after dinner gymnastics.

As for the housing market in Texas (and Florida), the exodus of recovering liberals, running shrieking from the burning buildings they stood by and watched looted and vandalized, will prove to be your undoing. If you start out with a pot of Texas chili and pour a shot-glass of human shit in it, you instantly have a pot of human shit.

It is just that nobody notices until it has boiled down a ways and the whole city stinks worse than an outhouse at a Punk Rock show. With 8 trillion dollars of fiat money floating at the top of this illusionary economic septic tank, it won't be long before the inevitable margin call trues up the ledgers - and that pile of extra cookies in the jar start to shrink before your eyes.

As far as the rating panels are concerned, the future of the game itself is a giant question mark. Golf - like nearly every other sports institution in (read: what is left of) America - is now managed by cowardly, feckless pukes - having acquiesced to the mob, not even making a token attempt to defend and protect the institutions of our game.

I have met and spent a little time with a sizable number of young newbie raters and strong players. Golf in our era was a way of life - in some ways a self-defining identity, but one that came with a key to open the portals if you just adhered to our traditions and behaved yourself like a young lady or gentleman.

What we have now is a game viewed more as just another activity - which is why Olympic is overrun with cigar-smoking, 12-handicap cartball jockeys who can no more correctly pronounce the word Redan than define what it means.

They mostly vote reliably Democrat, which means instead of - I don't know - building some dams and power plants so we can irrigate our courses and have electricity to power Golf Channel on TV, the environuts mean to slowly (but inexorably) strangle the game out of existence by shutting off our water and forcing their totalitarian will and whim on private organizations.

If the culture of our game disappears - and those carrying the torch and guideposts of the past eventually die off - the reasons for our traditions will fade into the ether. In that case, the recognition of great architecture will have no more staying power than Hunter Biden's sophomoric fingerpainting trash in the Met Museum.   


   


 


   








   
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 12:36:48 AM by Gib Papazian »

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2021, 06:24:56 PM »
Never fear Gyro, at the rate Californians are relocating to Nashvegas your local tool shed will be emptied and and life will be carefree there once more.



All the best Gibby.


Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Gib_Papazian

Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2021, 12:27:56 AM »
Bogey,

Her Redness just spent a few days visiting a friend in Nashville and was absolutely smitten by its sanity, entertainment and relative cleanliness. You guys are stealing (read: the idiots here are driving out) all the bottles on our top shelf.

The problem with your theory is that every useful taxpaying, toolshed dwelling ex-pat from the Planet Pelosi is replaced by two drug-addled shoplifters and a brace of incontinent schizophrenics, nearly all of whom drifted here looking for a free lunch - or were deliberately sent here by other states, looking to dump their trash in California.


Maybe Conde Nast can get them to tithe a bottle of Thunderbird - and form a new panel to rate our rescue missions and Tenderloin liquor joints. The way things are going with lack of water, insane taxes and constant attacks against private clubs by enviroloons, not sure how much longer golf will continue to exist here in the Golden Turd.
   
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 12:33:02 AM by Gib Papazian »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT I played with a GD rater and he was intelligent and open minded.
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2021, 12:32:58 AM »
Gib- I told Lou via PM that Copper Valley (Saddle Creek) would be an enjoyable place to play, if not one that would be included on anyone's "top anything" architecture list.  The on-site accomodations are great (Bandon plus maybe 20% better) and as long as it isn't 100 degrees there, it is a fun course to play over and over.


It has been the site for the last three years of a local group outing...20 of us playing a Ryder Cup format on Friday-Sunday.  72 holes total.  It would be a great setting for a King's Putter...not a top 100 course by any means, but fun for the venue and informal competition.


My only gripe is that I have played the 4th hole about 12 times now, and I have put a full dozen balls into the water hazard on the left.  It has my number.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

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