News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mike Young has long claimed that much of the traditional architecture credited to the old dead guys was actually the work of local farmers.  Johnson City Country Club provides an excellent case study.  A nine hole course was constructed there in 1913 with A. W. Tillinghast re-doing it around 1919 (he was also in the area designing 9 NLE holes at nearby Kingsport).   Only four years later a second nine was designed and constructed by the superintendent and two local laborers.   The course plays 6400 yards from the tips (all distances below).  Any distinctions between the nines were likely blurred by John LaFoy's renovation to the greens and bunkers in the late 1980's.  That said, just for fun I thought you might want to guess which of the following holes is Tillie and which is the "farmers."

The tumbling fairway on a 363 yards par four.   The tee is to the extreme right of the photograph beyond the rain shed back over a hill with the green to the left of the photograph:


298 par four dogleg left that is otherwise very similar to the 3rd at the Cascades.  As you see looking back toward the tee from the green there is no good place to drive the ball:


As a result, this is the likelly approach from 30 yards out with the flag barely visible:


A 190 yards one-shotter from short right of the green:


The tee shot on this 405 yards par four is directly  over the green previously pictured:


A low-profile 195 yards one-shotter:


These right side mounds on the same hole might be the work of LaFoy:


From behind the green of a dogleg right 428 yards hole:


From behind a severly uphill dogleg right 328 yards par four:


The green on this 299 severely downhill par four is well protected:


The tee shot on this hole is quite intimidating given the clubhouse on the right and patio on the left from which the photograph was taken:


Have at it.

Mike
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 10:53:45 AM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2008, 11:10:32 AM »
Don't you love a hole where there is nowhere to drive the ball?  :o ;D

CJ Carder

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2008, 12:37:01 PM »
I'd like to know more about this course.  My parents met at ETSU there in Johnson City and most of my family lives in Kingsport (and at one time lived in Jonesboro).  Yet for whatever reason, I've never seen or even heard about this course until recently when skimming over the Tillie group website. 

The one hole where the tee shot is over top of the previous green is pretty interesting and not something I've seen on any other course.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 01:12:19 PM »
Michael,

Not knowing if the the green you showed that had this statement "These right side mounds on the same hole might be the work of LaFoy.." attached or not, but Tilly used mounding of this type on a great many of his greens. It actually looks as if this green has lost a great deal of putting surface. Tilly would quite often run the putting surfaces out and even up to the crests of greenside border mounds such as these.




Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2008, 01:51:59 PM »
Very astute comment Phillip as this is indeed one of the Tillie holes.  Not pictured on that hole are two small round mounds inside the right and left edges of the fairway approximately 20 yards shy of the green. 
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mike Sweeney

Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2008, 08:32:06 PM »
Mike,

My guess is the first three and last picture of the course (not the clubhouse picture) are Tilly holes. I had a friend who played for the Johnson City Cardinals (St Louis Cardinals farm team) and he loved the people there. Basically they adopt the players for the season.

RobertWalker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2008, 10:45:41 AM »
I believe that picture A is the fourth hole. No bunkers. The play on this hole was a 2 iron that would land on the downslope and run like mad.
B and C are of the sixth hole. It was a very short hole that drove NCAA players mad before the green was "fixed"
D,E,F and G are of the seventh hole. In the sixties, a Doctor on the Green Committee came up with this scheme. For this green originally served as the eighth hole putting surface, and the seventh was actually a short straight par four. Today 7,8,9 are par 3 4 5. Before the changes 7,8,9 were 4 4 3.
All of the greens are totally different than they were in the sixties.
H is the fourteenth hole with the fifteenth fairway as Interior OB.
I is the eighteenth hole and the driveway is OB. J and K are of the short sixteenth hole.
A new tee was added on the par 3 second hole in the sixties, shifting the approach 90 degrees counter-clockwise, the 789 re-routing, and a new seventeenth green location are the major changes that have taken place at JCCC. They planted too many trees in the sixties as well.

Bobby Wadkins, David Eger, and Larry Hinson played for ETSU's golf team, and J C Sneed played baseball there as well. JCCC was the golf team's home course.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2008, 10:49:58 AM »
"Very astute comment Phillip..."

Aw shucks!!!!  ;D

Robert_Walker

Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 11:02:48 AM »
I disagree. Today's seventh is nowhere near being an original Tillinghast hole. The entrance to this green when it was the eighth hole was where those new mounds are now, and  the green has been redesigned twice since the rerouting of the outward nine.
Also, before the sixth hole was redone, you could not see the flagstick from the approach location shown in picture C. It was a classic plateau green.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 11:16:34 AM »
Michael,
quote"Mike Young has long claimed that much of the traditional architecture credited to the old dead guys was actually the work of local farmers.  Johnson City Country Club provides an excellent case study.  A nine hole course was constructed there in 1913 with A. W. Tillinghast re-doing it around 1919 (he was also in the area designing 9 NLE holes at nearby Kingsport).   Only four years later a second nine was designed and constructed by the superintendent and two local laborers.   The course plays 6400 yards from the tips (all distances below).  Any distinctions between the nines were likely blurred by John LaFoy's renovation to the greens and bunkers in the late 1980's.  That said, just for fun I thought you might want to guess which of the following holes is Tillie and which is the "farmers."

I think I may have confused you.....my theory is that many of the courses designed by the ODGs were built by farmers that had never before built a course and would never build another......of course that is just my opinion ;D
Mike
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tillinghast vs. Mike Young's Farmers at Johnson City CC
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2021, 04:08:17 PM »
Not sure how to post updated photos but just FYI MH...some new farmers are working there now...stop by. ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back