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Ben Hollerbach

  • Total Karma: 1
Bowling lanes are periodically oiled to protect the lane. Over time the application of oil has evolved in such a way to impact the direction and spin of a ball as it travels down the lane. Most commonly, there is more oil in the middle and less on the outside edges, allowing balls thrown near the edges to gain more traction and hook back towards the pins.


For professional bowling, there is a series of oil patterns that have been approved for play. The tournament committee will select the pattern based upon the condition of the lanes and the same pattern will be used during the duration of the event on all lanes. The patterns used under PBA events would be considered much more challenging than what is typically used during your weekly league night play.


Could a similar concept be used for fairway conditions for professional events? Mowing fairways to have slightly different grass heights from the edges to the center, and at different points down the fairway could become a technique to neutralize driving at the highest levels. Shorter grass along the edges of the fairway could promote balls running through the fairway, while longer grass in the middle can keep them in play. At the same time, longer grass in the middle of the fairway could reduce a players spin and control over the ball, while the shorter grass near the edges may be ideal for spin and control. Potentially putting a greater demand on players driving skill and where they land their golf ball.




JESII

  • Total Karma: 0
Similar to bowling...they currently maintain the golf courses for maximum entertainment value when the pros are playing. I personally don't see why the professional tours would strive to make their players look less good. The trick is to make them look better than they are...which they do quite well.

Ben Hollerbach

  • Total Karma: 1
Its only been in the past few years that oil patters have been visible to those watching the PBA. What was previously known to be there but invisible are not an integral portion of how the tour events are broadcasts. They've found an entertainment value in showing them to the viewer.


The same could be true for the PGA tour. There is drama in a drive that is flirting with the edge of the fairway in flight and the question if the ball will stay in the short grass or end up in the rough. At the same time, there is strategy to discuss for players trying to better capitalized on their approach shot conditions vs those playing it safe off the tee.


The goal is not to just showcase ultimate skill, its to make that skill appear compelling through potential drama.

John Emerson

  • Total Karma: 0
Bowling lanes are periodically oiled to protect the lane. Over time the application of oil has evolved in such a way to impact the direction and spin of a ball as it travels down the lane. Most commonly, there is more oil in the middle and less on the outside edges, allowing balls thrown near the edges to gain more traction and hook back towards the pins.


For professional bowling, there is a series of oil patterns that have been approved for play. The tournament committee will select the pattern based upon the condition of the lanes and the same pattern will be used during the duration of the event on all lanes. The patterns used under PBA events would be considered much more challenging than what is typically used during your weekly league night play.


Could a similar concept be used for fairway conditions for professional events? Mowing fairways to have slightly different grass heights from the edges to the center, and at different points down the fairway could become a technique to neutralize driving at the highest levels. Shorter grass along the edges of the fairway could promote balls running through the fairway, while longer grass in the middle can keep them in play. At the same time, longer grass in the middle of the fairway could reduce a players spin and control over the ball, while the shorter grass near the edges may be ideal for spin and control. Potentially putting a greater demand on players driving skill and where they land their golf ball.
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I’m sorry man, but I can’t help but laugh at this. Courses already have this…it’s called a step cut or intermediate cut. [/size]As former golf course superintendent, I see this in the same light as Trump suggesting disinfectant/bleach as a cure for covid.  No offense but this wayyyy out there.[size=78%]
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

jeffwarne

  • Total Karma: 0
or maybe just have centerline irrigation with random dried out edges.


There are SOOO many solutions proposed for the "alleged" scale problem.
None deals with scale
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Total Karma: 0
Yes, if there's one thing we can agree on it is that golf maintenance (whether tournament or otherwise) should definitely be more complicated.



Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Kyle Harris

  • Total Karma: 2
Talk to me when wind affects the bowling alley conditions.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

Kalen Braley

  • Total Karma: -3
Even if they don't do this for fairway mowing, they effectively already do it in other ways compared to every day play.

1- Extra long, thick rough
2 - Pinched-in fairways
3 - Super fast greens occasionally pushed to the brink of losing them.
4 - Tucked Pins
5 - Using the way back tees
6 - Shaved banks around greens so the ball rolls into more trouble and often times more difficult recoveries.
7 - Converting par 5s to 4s


Ben Hollerbach

  • Total Karma: 1
I’m sorry man, but I can’t help but laugh at this. Courses already have this…it’s called a step cut or intermediate cut.


I'm not speaking of a step cut, actually the exact opposite. Think something like a fairway cut that is 0.25" along the outside, tapering up to 0.75" down the middle, with the 0.25" fairway transitioning straight to 4" rough.


or maybe just have centerline irrigation with random dried out edges.


That would be an effective way to implement what I'm thinking. With the edges of the fairway being sparse and hard. But the rough would have to be penal enough to play as the "gutter"

Kyle Harris

  • Total Karma: 2
I’m sorry man, but I can’t help but laugh at this. Courses already have this…it’s called a step cut or intermediate cut.


I'm not speaking of a step cut, actually the exact opposite. Think something like a fairway cut that is 0.25" along the outside, tapering up to 0.75" down the middle, with the 0.25" fairway transitioning straight to 4" rough.


or maybe just have centerline irrigation with random dried out edges.


That would be an effective way to implement what I'm thinking. With the edges of the fairway being sparse and hard. But the rough would have to be penal enough to play as the "gutter"


Why leave the driving range? We could set up targets and whomever hits the most from prescribed distance can then move on to a putting contest.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

Ben Hollerbach

  • Total Karma: 1
Why leave the driving range? We could set up targets and whomever hits the most from prescribed distance can then move on to a putting contest.


considering the popularity in Top Golf, that's already happening.


But I'm curious Kyle, sarcasm aside what is it you think I'm trying to suggest? Neither of your comments have been anywhere close to my original question.

Thomas Dai

  • Total Karma: 0
Maintenance takes time and costs money and there are surely much higher priorities when it comes to both (unless you have oodles of cash and aren’t fussed about spending it).
Atb

Kyle Harris

  • Total Karma: 2
Why leave the driving range? We could set up targets and whomever hits the most from prescribed distance can then move on to a putting contest.


considering the popularity in Top Golf, that's already happening.


But I'm curious Kyle, sarcasm aside what is it you think I'm trying to suggest? Neither of your comments have been anywhere close to my original question.


Your suggestion implies some benefit for being “down the middle” of the fairway as opposed to “along the edges.” 


Some of the best golf holes I can think of encourage play as close to the edge of the corridor as possible. If it’s only about hitting the exact center of target after target, chosen by someone other than the golfer, why bother leaving the range?
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

Ben Hollerbach

  • Total Karma: 1
Your suggestion implies some benefit for being “down the middle” of the fairway as opposed to “along the edges.” 


Some of the best golf holes I can think of encourage play as close to the edge of the corridor as possible. If it’s only about hitting the exact center of target after target, chosen by someone other than the golfer, why bother leaving the range?


I'm actually speaking of the opposite.


Research has shown that playing a ball from shorter grass will promote greater ball speed, more consistent carry distance, and higher spin. For a player looking to optimize their lie conditions into the green they will be seeking the shortest grass in the fairway off of the tee. In doing so they also take on a greater risk of having their ball run through the short grass into the rough.


In contrast, if the fairway height in the middle of the fairway is longer, drives hit here will stop much quicker, keeping the ball out of the rough but also potentially shortening total driving length. For the approach, the longer fairway grass will impact the players ability to control distance and spin.


So if one plays aggressive and is always trying to work the ball near the edges of the fairway they can be rewarded with extra distance and a better lie, but will always be risking missing the ball in the rough. If one plays conservable off the tee and aims down the middle they will get less role and a less optimized approach lie.

Kyle Harris

  • Total Karma: 2
Still plays more into the hand of the guy who hits it farthest and highest. I have more control over my ball in the air than when it hits the ground.


Plus, it still advocates play along a corridor, just one side is bounded by less bouncy fairway and the other side is bounded by impenetrable rough. Why even have a side in either side of the thick middle of the fairway? All you’d effectively need is the optimum side - which just makes that the middle of the corridor.


The idea is to tempt the player to take on too little, not to force them into the correct play. This does the latter. You’d place the edge of your shot dispersion down the middle and the center of it on whichever side is preferable.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

“Split fairways are for teenagers.”

-Tom Doak

Ben Hollerbach

  • Total Karma: 1
Jeff Warne was correct that a single centerline irrigation system does effectively reproduce this concept.


What Pinehurst has done post renovation is very close to what I'm speaking of. While the middle line of the fairway is lush the edges are sparse and firm with unpredictable rough conditions contending beyond. When C & C restored the centerline irrigation 10 years ago they were applauded for how it added variability to the turf conditions, but today it seems the collective here no longer agrees or just doesn't understand.


Pinehurst is fortunate that their growing conditions make it possible and in other parts of the world variable height fairway cutting may not be as easily reproduced. That is just fine as the concept I'm speaking of is one that is almost strictly for tournament use. Considering what great lengths courses go through to prep for a professional tournament, a couple extra passes on the fairway mower would seem like less than massive imposition.


This practice would have a very minimal impact on the average player. Their ability to control the flight of their drives along with the distance and spin of their approach shots is not good enough for them to notice any difference. This would be something that would really only impact the very high level of player, top end am's and pro's. Much like the oil patters at PBA tournaments, it has the potential to give them fits during play.


Strategically it will ask players to shape shots off of the tee, even if the fairway is dead straight. To try and place your ball down one of the speed slots on the outside of the fairway you'd have to hit one of 2 shots. Either start the ball over the rough and turn it back into the fairway, ensuring the ball that lands in the short fairway is running down the fairway; or play the ball to land near the middle, but on an angle to run into the short fairway. The second strategy would require the first bounce of the ball to "check" it a bit, so it does not run through, limiting some top end distance. The first strategy would be focused on top end distance but would also require heightened precision to turn the ball enough to clear the rough, but not too much to run into the long fairway in the middle.


Based upon hole locations players may also elect to try and drive their ball into different parts of the fairway to better set up their approach shot. If the pin is located near the front of the green or in a tucked location it will be critical to drive the ball in the short fairway to ensure you can impart proper spin on the ball, allowing them to play an approach over the hole and spin it back. In counter, if the pin is at the back of the green they may try to play more down the middle, using the longer fairway grass to reduce the spin of their approach, allowing them to land the ball short of the hole and roll the ball back to the pin.


In all cases this concept would not limit a players options off of the tee, rather it would encourage them to select a specific shots designed to capitalize off of the turf conditions they desire. It gives the a greater range of options as the variable fairway cut presents them a greater range of playing conditions.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 10:51:56 AM by Ben Hollerbach »

Buck Wolter

  • Total Karma: 0
I had a conversation with a woman I work with who's husband has a 280 average on a standard lane but has started playing in a 'pro' league where the oil is more uniform (I think that's what she said) and his average dropped to 160. That seemed crazy -- that's like a +5 turning into a 10 on a different course. I know absolutely nothing about bowling.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

David Harshbarger

  • Total Karma: 0
Augusta mows uniformly from green to tee to use grain direction to effectively lengthen the course, iirc. 


This seems like a practical and manageable practice that takes the concepts of “invisible” corridor management and applies it to the particulars of golf.


Crowning the center line seems a little more intrusive and maybe too literal an application of bowling maintenance practices to golf, though the single row irrigation effect speaks a way that creates a similar effect.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Brad Lawrence

  • Total Karma: 0
Similar to bowling...they currently maintain the golf courses for maximum entertainment value when the pros are playing. I personally don't see why the professional tours would strive to make their players look less good. The trick is to make them look better than they are...which they do quite well.


??  Have you ever played a course just before or after a tour event?  They are set up quite difficult. The only reason we see scores like 15 and 20 under winning is because of the high difficulty of the courses and setups.  That’s the same kind of scoring you’re seeing at mini tour events from 7000+ with every pin tucked.  (Ask me how I know.) These guys are going to shoot -30 on your basic course/setup.

Edward Glidewell

  • Total Karma: 0
??  Have you ever played a course just before or after a tour event?  They are set up quite difficult. The only reason we see scores like 15 and 20 under winning is because of the high difficulty of the courses and setups.  That’s the same kind of scoring you’re seeing at mini tour events from 7000+ with every pin tucked.  (Ask me how I know.) These guys are going to shoot -30 on your basic course/setup.


That's not entirely true.


Some things are more difficult for Tour set-ups, but some things can be easier. They often use pin positions that are less difficult than what members play -- the Tour generally mandates cups are surrounded by a 3 foot circle of completely flat ground. I've played a course that hosts a Tour event dozens of times and I've played to pin positions that are much harder than anything I've seen used during the tournament.


They also don't always use the back tees on every hole every day. I've seen them play one of the par 3s from the senior tees.


Run of the mill Tour events want players to shoot low scores. They certainly don't make the courses easy, but they're trying to promote birdies and eagles.