For designers—do you think about 5/6 pin placements in design?

[mike_malone]

 I think of this as I watch Renaissance Club coverage. Our old classic doesn’t always have 5 or more good spots on some greens.

[JohnVDB]

When Poppy Hills as undergoing renovations, one of the folks working with Jones Jr. asked our superintendent how many hole locations he really needed on each hole.  He said, at least 7 since we frequently had NCGA tournaments every day.


It was nice when the USGA Girls Junior was there as there was no shortage of good choices.  I’ve seen other courses where there were basically 2 decent areas and one of those might only be useful in 1 round out of the 4 days.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Working mostly on (hopefully) busy public courses, I think in terms of 14-21 since that is how long it takes the 3-4 foot circle around the cup to recover. Low play, high budget courses might get by with 6, although I think 14 is more typical (their players are probably even more sensitive to putting over an old cup) but high play, lower budget courses need closer to the 21 IMHO.  Aggressive maintenance practices typically shorten the recovery interval.


Then, there is the whole "what is a cup location" and how many cups under tournament or off season conditions slope discussion.......

[Tom_Doak]

I think of it more in terms of total pinnacle area instead of counting separate hole locations.


The one hole at The Renaissance Club where the European Tour (Eddie Adam’s) needs more hole locations is the tournament 11th - the green near the wall which is probably the most noted hole on the course.  We are going to make the area for hole locations bigger at the front right and all the way at the back, so we don’t have to mess with all the cool contouring in between.


The Tour moves the hole each day for practice, pro-am, and tournament, so they want seven distinct locations.  For normal play the club only changes holes twice a week because the volume of play is not high, and because old cups take longer to heal on fescue greens.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
I mostly work on existing courses but we do A LOT of green expansions as most older greens have shrunk in size over the years (very few get bigger).  This shrinkage results in many of the best hole locations being lost.  On many classic courses, some of the best hole locations are near the edges (and near the surrounding hazards).  When greens shrink and the surrounding bunkers/greenside hazards separate away from the green surfaces, much of the design interest and strategy is lost.  We work hard to expand those greens back to the edges of the fill pads and restore the hole locations that are so tempting and inviting. We do this almost universally on every course we work on.  As I said, most greens shrink, they don't get bigger.  This not only spreads out wear, it makes for more interesting and enjoyable (and challenging golf) for all levels.  I am sure you understand why. 
Mark

[Mike_Young]

You can get by with 4 good pin locations on ultradwarf greens...probably need more on bent grass. 
BUT I do think many green chairs and supts. don't understand that pin locations are as much a part of the design as bunker locations and fairway lines.  Placing a pin on a transition area or too close to an edge etc is spitting on the design.  It happens too often when people wish to make a hole harder when they really just make it unfair...

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
I agree with you, hole locations are VERY MUCH part of an architect's design and many of the most interesting ones get lost when greens shrink and surrounding hazards shift away from the putting surfaces. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Most super's have a system based on (often) a 2 x 3 tic tac toe box, although a few use 9, a few use 7 (boxes and a bonus space at front of back for slow days) and I have also seen a hubcap 9 (center) and 4 spoke arrangement for 5.  Most won't put a pin back within 6-8 feet of a previous cup location for at least 2-3 weeks, so it's nice to have 2-3 spots in each area to fully allow them to spread the pins around.  It works a bit better than having 5 in one area and only 1 in another.


While it's hard to consider in design, rotation is often affected by both wet and drought conditions, avoiding the front of the green which is often the lowest point and wet in rains.  Some supers purposely put the pin near the path when the green is stressed, in hopes of limiting foot traffic on other parts of the green.

[Jeff Schley]

Mike,
I agree with you, hole locations are VERY MUCH part of an architect's design and many of the most interesting ones get lost when greens shrink and surrounding hazards shift away from the putting surfaces.

Or the club decides they want to speed up the greens which make some locations unpinnable.