Interesting Holes: Holes with two greens

[Kevin Pallier]

I have only come across a few courses in my time where two separate greens are maintained on the same hole:


USA
8th & 9th at Pine Valley
9th Pacific Dunes


GB&I
8th at Royal Troon


What other eg's are out there? What's good about them? What's bad about them? Why don't more courses have them?

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Manufacturers in Philly has two on 18.


I can't recall why there were two on 9 at Pine Valley as the second was added very early on. The right one on 8 was added in the 80s. The original green is tiny and was suffering from the wear so the second green was added to add some more variety and take some stress off the left green. They alternated the use daily on them for many years but with modern greenkeeping practices they left green can handle the traffic so it's predominatley on the original green now.

[Tom_Doak]

I hadn’t heard about the alternate green for the Postage Stamp.  When did that happen? 


The Dell at Lahinch used to have a winter green up by the next tee, don’t know if it still does.  The 11th there does have two greens now, as Hawtree thought he could improve on MacKenzie. 


Others:
Riviera 10 & 16. (Used mostly for Monday outings)
Sandpiper 13
Kiawah Island Cassique 5 or 6 (alternate routings)
Shadow Creek 11
Pelican Hill 12 or 13, can’t remember the #s


In both the latter cases, Tom Fazio built two greens so he could make them smaller, an idea he got from building the alternate 8th at Pine Valley.  I think he has built a few others but I haven’t seen those courses.

[Thomas Dai]

I recall reading that courses in some parts of the US used to have two greens, each played to at different times of year and that this trend expanded to Japan?
Atb

[Brad Engel]

The 2nd hole at LACC has an upper green and a lower green down in the wash area. I’ve only ever played it to the lower green, but the upper green appears to create a much different hole (uphill and dog leg right vs. flat/down and dog leg left).

[Adrian_Stiff]

Postage stamp alternative green about 15-18 years. To be fair you dont really see it unless you know where to look, its at about 8'oclock as you play the hole, punchbowl green. The long grass normally conceals it. I think its more of a winter green used when that tiny green just needs some respite.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I seem to remember two different greens at Desert Mt Geronimo.

[Matt Kardash]

Cabot Cliffs par 3 4th hole

[Cliff Hamm]

World Woods - Pine Barrens #12


Link from course website:


https://www.worldwoods.com/pine-barrens/

[Jaeger Kovich]

I built a hole with 2 greens last year at Edgartown Golf Club on Martha’s Vineyard.


It’s a 9 hole course, so The 7th and 16th now share 1/2 a fairway and most of the tees.


The 7th played straight up a Ridge, the new 16th plays at an angle over some bunkers and then the green is set on a different ridge lower right with the water in the background.


If you play 7, 8 is a short par4, if you play 16, 17 is a par3 from different tees to the same green.


The new green/hole turned out so well the actually call the new 16th #7 now!


Their 1/10 also has 2 greens and so does Streamsong black 13 which I also worked on.

[Ira Fishman]

I confess to not remembering the hole, but Dye built two greens to be used depending on the tee on 18 at Blackwolf Run Meadow Valley.

[Phil Burr]

Tommy W, I think you might be thinking of short par four #6 at Desert Mountain - Cochise.  Two greens; unfortunately neither one is much good.

[Phil Burr]

Most of the best holes I’m aware of with multiple green are on miniature golf courses.  The ones where you hole out on one green and the ball runs through a pipe and re-emerges somewhere onto a lower one.

I’ve never played in Japan where I understand that, acreage permitting, two greens is commonplace, utilizing different seasonal grasses to provide the best possible conditions year-round.  That practice hasn’t taken hold in the U.S., or else you’d see courses here in AZ with one green maintained in Bermuda and another in a winter grass.  Those operators have apparently resigned themselves to a six-week overseed period in the fall with really scratchy conditions as the single green transitions from one playing surface to another.

I recognize there are numerous examples of good/great courses with multiple greens.  Still, a common reason has to be the designer’s inability to find the best routing and leaving it up to the golfer to decide which green they like most (or should I say which one they dislike least?).

[Brent Carlson]

Chambers Bay #5 used to have two greens.  The first was a drivable par 4.  The second is about a 460 yard hole.  Before the 2015 US Open the drivable green was taken out.  At the same time the hole lost its width.  Not sure who made those decisions (USGA?) but it lost something unique.

[R_Paulis]

La Cumbre CC in Santa Barbara #12(?). Island green vs longer par 3.

[Rob Marshall]

Talon course at Twin Eagles in Naples Fla.

[Steve Lang]

   I remember that at Chambers Bay... was it USGA that drove change?


   At Indian Ridge near Oxford, OH, there's the par 4 12th with 2 greens...   


scorecard

[James Reader]

The 7th at Sherwood Forest has two greens; there’s one to the left of the main green that is used in the winter.  It’s supposedly the original green which was replaced by a new - more interesting and well-bunkered - one by James Braid about 20 years after the course opened.  The club now makes a lot of Colt’s apparent involvement in the original layout but it’s hard to believe he had anything to do with that green.

[Doug Bolls]

There was a course west of DFW in Haslet, TX with 2 greens on every hole.  Willow Springs (NLE) was it's name and one set of  greens were used Winter the other in the Summer.  For the most part, the greens were within 25 yards of each other and well tended all year.

[Ronald Montesano]

Postage Stamp (I believe.)

[Will Lozier]

I have only come across a few courses in my time where two separate greens are maintained on the same hole:

I believe the second course at East Lake maintained a complete set of alternate greens (different grasses for the seasons) for each hole during its brief existence. Many Japanese courses maintain two sets. I believe there is a thread here somewhere discussing East Lake and this feature with pics.


Cheers

[Pete_Pittock]

Pacific Dunes #9
Bandon Dunes #1 for a while
Tualatin 1st hole had an alternate winter green.
Tumwater Valley had a par 3 with two greens
Pronghorn (Fazio) has a par 4 with two greens (17?)

[Pete_Pittock]

Thread from 2014 https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,58642.0.html

[Erik J. Barzeski]

I think the Dye course at Barefoot Resort has a hole with two greens.


Nope, sorry, 13 on the Fazio.

[David Jones]

The 7th at Sherwood Forest has two greens; there’s one to the left of the main green that is used in the winter.  It’s supposedly the original green which was replaced by a new - more interesting and well-bunkered - one by James Braid about 20 years after the course opened.  The club now makes a lot of Colt’s apparent involvement in the original layout but it’s hard to believe he had anything to do with that green.

Here's a couple of pics of the 7th. The winter green doesn't scream Colt at you!!