Interesting Holes: Holes with two greens

[Peter Sayegh]

True Blue #6.
Oyster Bay #4. I believe the left green has been abandoned.

[Jim Sherma]

Mount Pleasant GC #1 - Baltimore muni.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Hole #3 at Fazio’s Corales in the D.R.

[Tom_Doak]

I am actually considering building two greens on the 11th at Dornick Hills as a result of this thread.


Maxwell’s original hole was a dogleg right, but he moved the green to the left later on.  My recommendation was to restore the original, but it’s a very steep green site so the green would have to be very small there.  Since both green sites were Maxwell’s, maybe we’ll build both?

[Wade Whitehead]

The par five third on Pete Dye's River Course at Kingsmill used to have two greens.

One was perched into a hillside and the other was down and left.

I believe both were used in tournament rounds when the PGA Tour played there.  The lower left green was much more receptive to a long second shot (but had trouble immediately beside it) while the upper green was designed more for a high, short approach. For regular play, though, the upper green was almost always used, probably because it was closer to the cart path and resulted in fewer lost balls (thanks to players going for the green).

I've heard that only one green is maintained on the hole now.  I haven't seen it in years, so I don't even know which green they got rid of.

WW

[Matthew Rose]

Cochise at Desert Mountain has (had?) one.... one of the par-threes on the back nine. I feel like Nicklaus did it again somewhere else in the south; the two greens were split by a creek.

Hyland Hills, which is a rather mediocre muni in Denver that I played frequently had built new greens on the last two holes on the opposite sides of a creek, replete with horrible railroad tie walls and pot bunkers that couldn't have screamed "1985" any louder than the third season of Stranger Things. The original greens on both holes were kept and maintained and I believe were sometimes used during the slow season. I got to play once in January with both of the old greens in play and it was so much more enjoyable.... of course both holes were a half-shot easier, but that's the "problem" isn't it?

I played Janesville (Wis) CC a lot in high school; the par-3 16th hole there at one time had two greens, but it was taken out years before; when you played the hole you could still see where it was pretty easily though, even in the winter time when it was a popular sledding hill for the neighborhood kids.

The Blackwolf Run example is an interesting one because *both* greens are in play but for different teeing areas, which might be the only example I can think of as far as I know. The green for the forward tee is on the near side of the river.

[Forrest Richardson]

Our 14th at Baylands Golf Links — Palo Alto — has two separate greens.

Also — Virginia CC in Long Beach. Cannot recall the hole.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I hadn’t heard about the alternate green for the Postage Stamp.  When did that happen? 


The Dell at Lahinch used to have a winter green up by the next tee, don’t know if it still does.  The 11th there does have two greens now, as Hawtree thought he could improve on MacKenzie. 


Others:
Riviera 10 & 16. (Used mostly for Monday outings)
Sandpiper 13
Kiawah Island Cassique 5 or 6 (alternate routings)
Shadow Creek 11
Pelican Hill 12 or 13, can’t remember the #s


In both the latter cases, Tom Fazio built two greens so he could make them smaller, an idea he got from building the alternate 8th at Pine Valley.  I think he has built a few others but I haven’t seen those courses.

There isn’t 2 greens on #11 at SC.
 
Belfair #6 West has 2 greens.
#8 @ Old Memorial has 2

[Bernie Bell]

#8 at Old Memorial in Tampa

[Tal Oz]

#6 at Riviera also has an alternate green for Monday outings to go along with #10 and #16. Quite the bummer to play a Monday outing and miss out on those amazing greens.

LA Muni Rancho Park also has a few holes on the back with two greens. #14,16,17 although I've never seen the one on 14 pinned. There's remnants of an alternate green on #11 and maybe a few more that I can't remember off the top of my head.
#13 at Wilshire has a small alternate green that was added maybe 5 years ago that plays as a ~100y shot instead of the ~170y shot to the main green.

[Kevin Pallier]

I hadn’t heard about the alternate green for the Postage Stamp.  When did that happen? 

As Adrian said - it's been around for a number of years and actually looks / plays quite decent.


Tom


As for Pacific Dunes #9 what was the inspiration there? Have you done it anywhere else?

[James Bennett]

With those holes with two greens, are there any which feature a centre-line hazard on the tee shot and then have a green left of centre, and a green right of centre, where the preferred line of approach switches from one side of the centreline hazard to the other?


James B

[Matt_Cohn]

Also — Virginia CC in Long Beach. Cannot recall the hole.

Having played there the last five days, I can tell you that’s also the 14th. Left green, used for tournaments, is reachable but a sliver, shades of 10 at Riviera. Right green is a small circle, seems like more of a layup scenario but I haven’t played it.

[Jaeger Kovich]

With those holes with two greens, are there any which feature a centre-line hazard on the tee shot and then have a green left of centre, and a green right of centre, where the preferred line of approach switches from one side of the centreline hazard to the other?


James B

The hole I designed at Edgartown has a something similar. There is a wee little centerline bunker at the widest/safest part of the fairway that makes the whole thing work... You can find the plan and drone flyovers on my website here: [size=78%]https://www.propergolf.com/projects-final[/size]

[Jim Sherma]

18th at Glenmaura national in Scranton, PA. Par 4 with a creek running between the two greens. A lot of dynamite was used on this hole and the course in general.

[Brock Lynch]

I hadn’t heard about the alternate green for the Postage Stamp.  When did that happen? 

As Adrian said - it's been around for a number of years and actually looks / plays quite decent.


Tom


As for Pacific Dunes #9 what was the inspiration there? Have you done it anywhere else?

Kevin,


you gotta buy the book to find out! 

[Paul Carey]

The 3rd hole at Bulls Bay.  It was built because the original green struggled to be healthy and it can relieve some of the traffic on the original green.

[Mark Kiely]

No. 9 at Mountain Falls in Pahrump, NV.

[David_Madison]

The 18th hole at the Creek Club at Reynolds, which was designed by Jim Engh, has 3 greens.


And I remember playing the Renegade Course at Desert Mountain shortly after it opened. There were two greens on pretty much every hole, although some of them may have been connected by narrow but unpinnable greens surfaces. I don't know if all that is still in place as I read on their website that in 2019 the course went through a major renovation that included new greens.

[Mike Hendren]

The 2nd at Idle Hour CC plays 215 uphill.  There is a second green to the right situated in a dell.   Not sure either is original as Ross'  1st and 2nd holes in 1924 might have been sacrificed for the driving range.  The club's course is highly underrated and perhaps Kentucky's best.


Mike

[Tim Martin]

The 12th hole par three at Mill River CC in Stratford, Connecticut has two greens. New green built roughly twenty five years ago has supplanted original although original is still there.

[Ben Hollerbach]

The 18th at the Country Club of Oklahoma has 2 greens. A par 5 with the lower green hugging a pond down the right side of the hole and the upper green near the clubhouse that lengthens the hole by 20 yards and requires an uphill approach.


For matches, I've heard the dual greens allows for press situations, as the man down in the match chooses which green is in play.


The 8th at Highland Park in Birmingham is a shortish par 5 with dual greens divided by a small creek. The righthand green is continuous with the fairway and is the primary green, the lefthand green is very small and sits across the creek, requiring a precise approach. For a hole of less than 500 yards and playing downhill, the lefthand green often requires players to lay up vs. risking missing the green in the creek or high surrounding grass.


Ansley Golf Clubs 9 hole course in Atlanta has a dual green hole that plays differently on the front and back. The 4th plays as a par 4 and the 13th plays as a par 5 with a green 100 yards further down the fairway.

[Jason Thurman]

The 2nd at Idle Hour CC plays 215 uphill.  There is a second green to the right situated in a dell.   Not sure either is original as Ross'  1st and 2nd holes in 1924 might have been sacrificed for the driving range.  The club's course is highly underrated and perhaps Kentucky's best.


Mike

This is a cool one. Really plays like two completely different holes, although on an aerial they look almost like mirror images of each other and both play roughly the same distance.


Steve Lang notes it, but I don't recall two greens on Indian Ridge's 12th, nor do I notice two on an aerial. The scorecard does show two greens though... I've only played the course once and need to make a return visit. Pretty cool SW Ohio public...


Jim Coleman mentions Corales. I had completely forgotten the double-greened 3rd hole, and now looking at an aerial it looks like they also have two greens on 15. Honestly the most forgettable course that tries to be memorable on a memorable site that I've ever played.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I hadn’t heard about the alternate green for the Postage Stamp.  When did that happen? 

As Adrian said - it's been around for a number of years and actually looks / plays quite decent.

Kevin - I kinda think 75% of the green fee is for playing the postage stamp, would be quite a gutter play the alternative.

[A.G._Crockett]

#6 at True Blue.  The two greens are not at all close together, and it plays as a right dogleg to one and a left dogleg to the other, both close to 90*.  Great hole to either green, but marginally harder to the one on the left, IMO.


#10 at Hasentree in Wake Forest, NC.  Fazio course now owned by Club Corp.  A second green was built later, about 40 yards to the right of the original green, and it is a MUCH better hole to the new green than to the original.  I was told that this was done at Fazio's insistence, but that sort of doesn't make sense to me.  I've played the course a half dozen times, and have only seen the original green in use once.  I'd guess they use it weekdays?


#11 at Hillandale, an ancient muni in Durham, NC.  This one really bugs me; it is a great short 4 to the original green, with a layup tee shot that has to be very precise because of a creek, and then a short iron into a narrow, two-tiered green.  But the newer green, which was added probably 30 or so years ago, is off to the right, elevated, and farther back, so that you generally hit a longer club on the second shot than you did off the tee, which really bugs me.  Maybe it shouldn't, but it does.