Maidstone

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Though Maidstone has several great golf holes, it is highly overated.  Inwood and Fairfield are much greater courses.  Maidstone is more on par with Rockaway Hunt.

[TEPaul]

"Though Maidstone has several great golf holes, it is highly overated."

There seem to be some who feel that way but thankfully there doesn't appear to be that many of them.    

Maidstone is a course that's as close to the old style of golf as almost any I've seen in America and there's a lot to be said for that. It's true that when some look at some of the holes of Maidstone they aren't very impressed--and some complain about the condition of it at times. The variations in weather from calm to windy and more is part of the appeal of Maidstone and certainly part of the extreme variation of its challenge from relatively easy to fascinatingly brutal. Some say the same can be said for any golf course but that hasn't been my experience like at Maidstone.

Lastly, I'm happy that Maidstone as a club apparently couldn't care less if raters and others think their course is highly overrated, overrated or whatever. They love it and so do many others and its uniqueness is a big part of that. I hope they continue to keep it that way.

[brad_miller]

I will have to add Inwood to my desire to play list, not that it hasn't been there with comments from Pat Mucci and Chip Oat. Maidstone is controversal, but many of the best things are. There are not many places I would rather spend playing golf. What holes at Maidstone just don't do it for you, I does have a good number of world class holes, many fine courses have none.

[johnnyjumpstart]

I felt the same way the first few times I played Maidstone, but after the 3rd or 4th time I began to really appreciate the course more & more. Some of the character of the course is more evident if you have played it in various weather conditions. Being hard against the ocean, the course conditions can dramatically change several times during a single round. I remember once teeing off on a sunny 75F day in september and by the time I got to the back nine a fog bank had rolled in off the ocean & the temperture had dropped to 50F! Maindtone is not overrated, it is simple under appreciated IMO. john

[rgkeller]

People who speak through clenched jaws need a place to play golf too.

[Mike_Sweeney]

I saw Inwood a number of years ago when Doak had finished renovation of the front 9, and was about to start the back 9. Thus it may have changed some, but the property just did not have the dunes, character or roll of Maidstone. Just follow the size of the dunes as you further east on Long Island. The biggest are out at Montauk, which would be the perfect spot for a "Dune" course (Montauk Downs being inland). The jets coming out of JFK every 2 minutes was no picnic either. I can't imagine trading in a round at Maidstone for Inwood, IMHO.

The "Beach" holes at Misquamicut on the lower piece of the property are similar to the terrain at Inwood. But again, I would give the nod to Misquamicut because the inland holes there are on roller coaster terrain. Misquamicut may be short for many, but more fun IMHO.

Hope to see Rockaway and Fairfield CC some day.

[Donnie Beck]

Tom said it all..  I couldn't agree more..  Not much else to say about it..  I LOVE maidstone..

[hp@hc]

the "Maidstone Experience" is one not soon forgotten. The remote site on the East end of LI, the grand clubhouse overlooking the Ocean, the 1st holes that lulls you into a false sense of security, and IMHO the course just gets better and better with age!

It definitely is "back to your roots" golf, and that's the kind of golf I like.  You can keep your railroad ties and fru-fru waterfalls - I want a 40 mph blowing in my puss, with a flag that is bent over from the elements, and bunkers that look like they were there before man!!

The drive is worth it, albeit a long one, and the experience is always rewarding.  Some great short par-4s, notably #17.

Don't be deterred by the doubters Maidstone - hold you position!
 

[George_Bahto]

Maistone is so very special!!

It is one of the great golfing experiences.

If you don't "get it" we feel bad for you.

[Joel_Stewart]

RMD: How many times have you played Maidstone?

Johnnyjumpstart has it right, you need to play it more and more to understand it.  Personally after playing it again this summer, I think Maidstone is the finest summer CC in America. Show me a club that has the beach, grass tennis courts, pool, summer activities for the family and great golf.  

As for the course, it is one of the finest examples of preserved classic links around.

[G_Tiska]

TEPaul
You hit right on the head. Maidstone is a classic!!!!!! All the new ones [built recently out there] still don't compare.

[Joel_Stewart]

Though Maidstone has several great golf holes, it is highly overated.  

RMD
Its clear that 6 - 10 are world class but I have to question what holes do you not think are great or why do you think the course is overated?  

Golf Digest has the course ranked 56th in the US.  How much lower should it go?

[Forrest Richardson]

While I have little on the East to compare — my day at Maidstone many years ago was tremendous. I cannot believe it is "overrated", but maybe I'm wrong.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I have played Maidstone 10 times, never between the holidays--perfect links golf conditions--those who summer or play LI golf in the summer do not see many varying conditions--I've played it in rain , 35mph wind, 40degrees etc.             As far as the idea of golf as it is meant to be played--there are many UK  and Irish courses of lesser world rank (Golf Mag)--Island, Port Stewart, Baltray, Nairn, Cinq Ports,  to name a few off the top of my head that are more architecturally interesting than Maidstone.   Holes 1 & 2 are weak.  The ocean holes are awesome, and yes there is a links feel that is not found at too many courses.  For purety of design, met NY has a wealth of great holes not many people know about--I've played them all--that is why I feel qualified to comment.  About Inwood--less noisy than Troon!  How about the strategic bunkering--Inwood still challenges the pros very well and the 30 handicap shoots to level while being challenged by different hazards.  Inwood has a variety of world class green complexes.  As  great, try Fairfield--an awesome Redan,2 phenominal capes, and  many of Rainor's trademarks that  effortlessly blend into the landscape.

[TEPaul]

In my opinion, Maidstone has a number of holes that're very birdieable but I wouldn't describe them as weak. They would include #1, #2, #5, #7, #13, #14 and #17. Although those holes are very birdeable a simple mistake on any of them can cost you and all of them have a rather wide scoring spectrum even for top flight players that make them holes of interest, architecturally and otherwise.

At least two holes, #15, #16 are weak to their par and being as short as they are for their par my recommendation would be for Maidstone to take advantage of its two shots to spare (par 72 against par 70) and simply print an alternate card for quality players and call them par 4s without doing a thing to them. This simple move would alter the perception of the difficulty of Maidstone (not that that's important but it would unquestionably have that effect). Basically that would only leave #13 as somewhat of a weak hole but taking advantage of that hole's difficult pin positions would compensate for that (the best examples being just over the false front, midgreen way right or back left!).

The problem with some of Maidstone's holes is they look somewhat mundane and consequently weak but really aren't. The third shot to #2, for instance, is just as difficult as the third shot to NGLA #7, probably harder actually given the more extensive bunkering on the left of the green and the fact that a golfer can't really play his second shot as far right on Maidstone's #2 to get into the orientation of that green. I've seen more bogies on #2 off of what appear to be three very good shots. It's a tricky green to approach.

Maidstone is probably an excellent example of a course where some golfers feel if they birdie a hole easily there must be something weak about that hole. I guess that's one way of looking at architecture but I'll guarantee most all those holes are ones that very good golfers do a lot worse than par on them with what they feel are good shots and that to me indicates the overall quality of a hole even though it may appear weak to them. Certainly the ultimate in that kind of spectrum is #17. Nobody seems to think its a weak hole but it is extremely birdeable. The beauty of it is the other side of the spectrum is so real and so prevalent for a variety of reasons!

[Will E]

I think Maidstone is the finest summer CC in America. Show me a club that has the beach, grass tennis courts, pool, summer activities for the family and great golf.  

I'd agree with the above, it ranks as one of the finest clubs in the world. We should also add they make a wonderful Southside and have perhaps the best staff on LI.

As far as the course goes, I have to agree with RMD. There are far too many holes that do not belong on a course rated so highly. It's very clear to me that Maidstone's ranking relies more on it's other assets besdies the course. Weak to me does not mean easy, Lawsonia is probably easier though I can't think of one hole at Lawsonia that couldn't replace the six weakest at Maidstone.
Nice to see RMD with a post, he is one of the best players on LI. Too bad he's afraid to speak his mind.

[TEPaul]

Shooter:

RMD is one of the best players on Long Island? Now the interest is peeked. Maybe RMD should appreciate more the birdies he makes at Maidstone for tomorrow they might be bogies. Honestly, Maidstone sure is one of my favorite courses anywhere but sitting around comparing its holes to holes on other courses and things such as that is really not the way to look at a golf course like Maidstone. The one thing a golf course like Maidstone does not need is the slightest kind of homogenizing with any other course in America, in any way. It is what it is and there just aren't many left like it. Easy, hard, highly rated or not highly rated I hope it keeps the same basic aura it's always had. When what it is gets lost or gets changed we may never see it again in America and that would be a shame!

[Matt_Ward]

Shooter / RMD:

Amen on your comments. Great courses have the total "golf" package -- the other elements are wonderful elements but are separate asides.

[TEPaul]

All these years I've secretly wondered what it really takes to be a great golf course and now I know. It takes the 'total "golf" package'! What could possibly be clearer.  

Huh?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The purpose of my comments on Maidstone is not to demean the club, but to point out how other greater courses have been overlooked.  Maidstone is better compared with the European links courses--there are several not currently in the World rankings that are architectural gems.  There is no way Nairn is inferior to Maidstone.  As far as being easy, Cruden Bay can really be ripped up--I can't think of a links course that is more fun to play.  Incidentally, Fishers Island is really easy--I don't know of one weak hole--please point it out to me!  Nobody seems to be mentioning Fairfield  or Inwood--they are truely great courses.  By the way, I forgot to mention Seawane--once the restoration is finished, perhaps Emmett will gain more of the respect his courses deserve--his courses were built for links style play--most are grossly overwatered.  Maidstone has great features, but there are an abundance of greater features at some lesser ranked courses.  By the way, Maidstone is certainly top 5 for the Southside--invented at Lawrence Beach Club--and the clubhouse is awesome.

[ChipOat]

RMD:

As someone who is a big fan of both Inwood and Rockaway Hunt, I appreciate the kudos BUT:

RHC on a par with Maidstone??  High praise, indeed!!  From a pure architectural perspective, Inwood has a shot but Maidstone really is pretty special.  Just too many really awesome holes not to be considered at some higher level IMO.

Maidstone overrated if compared equally with National and/or Shinnecock?  You bet.

[blasbe1]

Maidstone is on my short list of most want to play.  

I've played Inwood several times and like many of the holes, the par 3 10th and 14th on the bay are great short holes.  Overall, however, I think Inwood is disappointing.  The planes are bad no matter what people say about getting used to them and while most all of the trees are very old, virtually none are visable in the old photos of Jone's US Open victory hanging in the men's lockeroom.  I sense that 90% of the trees on the course were planted over time and the links play of course suffers for it.  18 is also a great hole but no trees were there when Jones hit his two iron from the rough.  If I remember correctly, trees to the right side of the fairway now over hang the marker for Jones' shot.    

Rockaway Hunt is a better tract, in my opinion.  

[ChipOat]

blasbe1:

RHC better than Inwood?  Also high praise.

While modern equipment, etc. has taken some of the teeth out of the "pre-trees" Inwood, the green complexes there are, for the most part, pretty creative, I think.

I'm actually not a big fan of #10 - the shortest hole in U.S. Open history.  It's a (woman) members' green - too big and too small a penalty for missing given the length of the hole (about 100 yards from the tips).

Maidstone still has the edge over both IMO.

[Sandman]

You feel that Inwood is a better course and that Maidstone is overrated?  I wonder how all of you GCA "traditionalists" would feel about Maidstone had Doak done renovation work there.  Just a thought  

Also, Seawane is mentioned in hopes that after restoration is complete that Emmett will get the respect he deserves??  hardly.  The only person gunning for respect there is Stephen Kay.  Once Kay is complete with the restoration, the course will resemble NOTHING like Emmett designed, poor guy, he must be rolling in his grave about it.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Didn't Steven Kay do work at Rockaway Hunting Club also?  How did he do?