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Karl Jensen

Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« on: June 30, 2021, 08:16:57 AM »
I came across this newspaper article yesterday. It gives credit to Colt for the Kanawaki course design in 1913. Colt was certainly in Canada during 1913 by other newspaper reports.


Charles and Albert Murray are usually credited online with designing Kanawaki.


Does anyone think the below newspaper article about Kanawaki and Colt holds water?


Kanawaki Golf Club article, 3 Jul 1923 Lethbridge, Canada Herald newspaper

Wayne_Kozun

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2021, 08:48:30 AM »
Ian T. Murray (@golfvue) is very active on Twitter, tweeting about the Murray family and their role in Canadian golf history.  Might want to touch base with him and see if he knows anything about the course and the role of Colt and the Murrays, although me might be biased in favour of the Murrays.

Adam Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2021, 09:35:22 AM »
Anthony Gholz and I have known about this article for some years. I have Kanawaki down as a possible. We know Colt was in Montreal, but so far there’s no other corroboration of this.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net
Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting

'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' 'Up Top: the story of Landmand' (both forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all

Karl Jensen

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2021, 07:04:41 AM »
Thanks Adam and Anthony,


I too have found nothing further connecting Colt to Kanawaki other than the below Carters Tested Seed advertisement from Nov 1914 that has Kanawaki prominently listed as a Carters client along with Colt's CC of Detroit and Old Elm. So what motivated Carters to list these five clubs by name above their other client courses? Perhaps a well known golf course architect? I'm just speculating.


Karl


Carters Tested Seed advertisement, Nov 1914 Golf magazine

Andrew Harvie

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2021, 08:38:56 AM »
I have done a lot of research into Kanawaki & Colt and I think it's entirely possible, but I don't know for sure. I haven't found any definitive proof, so unfortunately, I can't prove it.


With that being said, Colt was in Montreal spring of 1913 and Kanawaki opened with 15 holes that fall, and the full golf course opened in 1914. The golf course is routed in triangles, like Colt did at Hamilton, and the par 3, 17th feels like a Colt one shot hole.


Anthony's book mentions the long two shot holes feels like Colt, too.


My best guess as of now: Colt stopped by to help a very new Albert Murray given Kanawaki & Royal Montreal's relationship, and gave some direction. As of now, I can't officially prove it's a Colt.


FYI, Donald Ross renovated Kanawaki around 1920 and the club has buried that, so it's entirely possible.
Managing Partner, Golf Club Atlas

Karl Jensen

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2021, 08:49:10 AM »
Kanawaki Golf Club course was already under construction in Oct 1912. So this rules out Colt's visit to North America arriving 7 Apr 1913 in New York City with a destination of Chicago. His previous visit, as far as I can tell from passenger manifests on Ancestry.com, was 17 Mar 1911 arriving in New York City with a destination of Toronto. By May 1911 Colt was back in England competing in a golf tournament. The Outremont Golf Club in Sept 1911 had a special meeting to discuss a report by the Kanawaki committee to incorporate the club and to make arrangements for financing new grounds and a new clubhouse. Colt was already back in England.


A newspaper report from his 23 Apr 1914 trip to North America, arriving in Boston, MA with a destination of Montreal states Colt only had two previous visits to America. The timeline pieces don't fit that Colt designed Kanawaki. He may have visited Kanawaki at sometime and made suggestions.


Kanawaki Golf Club article, 21 Oct 1912 Montreal, Quebec Gazette newspaper

Anthony Gholz

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2021, 12:39:04 PM »
Karl:


Yes several articles have Kanawaki under construction in 1911 and 1912, long before Colt's 1913 visit to Royal Montreal's Dixie site.  His 1911 visit was very targeted with pre arranged contracts (The CCD/Toronto GC).  It was a less than three week visit so I don't think Montreal was on the itinerary.  This is a Murray brothers course.  As per the book Colt was at Royal Montreal in 1913 and of course could have easily made a Kanawaki visit, but the course was at the tail end of construction and they were playing a couple holes.  So if Colt had a comment or two it wasn't the routing or basic design, maybe a bunker.  Moved after lunch ;) [size=78%].[/size][/size][size=78%]  Colt's RM work is a "no longer existing" course on a long gone site.[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Anthony[/size]

zachary_car

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2025, 04:43:58 PM »
Sorry to revive an old topic but I was recently discussing Kanawaki with Ian Murray (who used to post here), and he asked if I could add this information since it wasn't brought up initially. The May 1923 to April 1924 editions of the Canadian Golfer can be a bit harder to come by, because, unlike those published before and after this period, they haven't been digitized yet.


However, correcting a claim forwarded by Kanawaki's Captain W.G. Thompson in the May '23 ed. that their course had been constructed in 1913 a year after Colt had "gone over the available ground in 1912", Ralph Reville (who was personally close with Colt) stated that "by the way, in the article in the May issue {...} it was stated that its author was Mr. H.S. Colt. This is a mistake. Kanawaki was laid out by Albert H. Murray, who was the club's first professional, and C.R. Murray of the Royal Montreal, his brother, was several times called into consultation."


« Last Edit: April 05, 2025, 04:48:46 PM by zachary_car »

Bret Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2025, 09:19:53 PM »
I came across an article mentioning Robert Pryde at Kanawaki in September1912.  Not exactly sure of his role there, but I thought I would include it in this thread.


New Haven Union., September 08, 1912:







Adam Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2025, 02:58:10 PM »
I have found Kanawaki one of the most perplexing of courses in the potential Colt oeuvre. Very little of it makes much sense. The only hard reference I have found to Colt at Kanawaki is the 1923 article from the Lethbridge Herald that Karl posted at the head of this thread. How on earth would a writer for a small town paper from Alberta, almost 2,000 miles away from Montreal, have come across this factoid? I presume that it would have been agency copy, but can't prove anything. But equally, ten years after the event, how/why on earth would such a fact have been printed in error? It's not as though the paper had any interest in the matter.


Clearly Colt didn't lay the course out in totaiity. Carter's North American course list, which I found in the Museum of English Rural Life in Reading, says that its seed was used to sow all eighteen greens, in September 1912. Colt hadn't been in Canada since spring 1911, and he was only in Toronto.


But equally, the club's own history says that the course did not open until late summer 1913, when fifteen holes were ready for play, and the full eighteen the year after. And we know that Colt was in Montreal in summer 1913, and that there was a close connection between the courses that Carter's worked on and the ones he visited. So a visit then, and a role in the design of the course, is not out of the question.


My suspicion, and it is only that, is that he visited during his stay in Montreal, and made suggestions as to the bunkering of the course. But obviously I cannot prove it. The only way that hard proof will ever be obtained is if there is something in the club's own archive. I have tried to contact them, but have been unable to do so.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net
Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting

'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' 'Up Top: the story of Landmand' (both forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all

zachary_car

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2025, 04:18:16 PM »
That random reference to Colt is confusing for sure. We also know that Colt visited a handful of sites around the city with an eye towards Royal Montreal’s potential move away from their Dixie site in 1913. Was this when he visited? Was Kanawaki perhaps having trouble with its turf in its grow-in phase and he was called in for advice or on behalf of Carter’s? I believe that Ian has searched their archives and found no mention of Colt in them.



As for the random reference from Lethbridge, I tend to think it was likely based on what the piece’s writer had read in the May ‘23 CG, whose editions were published later in their respective months. The simplest explanation seems to be that he perhaps hadn’t received the June ‘23 ed. yet, which would have been published only ten days or so prior to July 3 ‘23



« Last Edit: April 12, 2025, 11:12:50 PM by zachary_car »

Niall C

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2025, 08:12:16 PM »
Let me suggest, having absolutely no evidence at all in doing so, that perhaps Colt's input was to route the course from the UK by means of using a contour plan of the ground ?


Why do I suggest that ? Well firstly prior to WWI, Britannia still ruled the waves when it came to golf and there was no bigger/better name in golf course design than Colt. Perhaps the club were desperate to get Colt's input and if they couldn't have him on the ground then maybe they could persuade him to provide a routing based on a contour map. At that time the use of plans, plasticine models and the like were very much in vogue and used by MacKenzie, Simpson and Fowler. Not sure whether Colt liked to play with plasticine and not sure how practical it would be anyway to do a design using plasticine and then send it round the world, but I could readily imagine him providing a plan. That might explain Andrew's comments on the routing being Colt like in the use of triangles.


One other reason why I put forward this idea, and it is one I think I mentioned to Adam previously, and it is that I once came across an article/snippet in one of the UK golf mags from pre-WWI, if memory serves me correctly, which referred to Colt providing a design from plan to a club in North America. Sadly, I didn't get a copy of the article and I haven't been able to go back and find it in the reference library since but maybe this thread might act as a spur to go and have another search.


Anyway, just a thought.


Niall


 

zachary_car

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2025, 11:17:30 PM »
If Colt did in fact have a significant role here, I tend to think that Reville would have clarified it in his June ‘23 erratum.

Phil Young

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2025, 01:34:07 AM »
Niall, that was probably Bloomfield Hills CC which he imspected in 1913 before heading to Pine Valley CC. The club's documents mention that they had received the drawings for the new course and also set of specifications for it that had been sent by Colt to them from the U.K. They used them to build their new course that included a new 50-acre tract of land which was next to the clubs current (at that time) Bendelow course, that Colt urged them to purchase and that he created holes for...

Bret Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2025, 07:48:19 AM »
If Colt did in fact have a significant role here, I tend to think that Reville would have clarified it in his June ‘23 erratum.


Did Reville mention that Donald Ross came in to offer suggestions and improvements to the golf course in 1917? These suggestions were carried out in the years following the war and would have been completed shortly before this article was written.  Ross suggested tiering some of the greens so that there weren’t so many blind shots and he offered suggestions to improve the bunkering.  It’s hard to imagine they would have had to call in Ross just a few years after an original Colt design was put into the ground. It’s a little more reasonable to think Ross was improving an Albert Murray or Robert Pryde golf course, than a Colt course.  The Colt connection just doesn’t seem to make sense.


Carters Tested Seeds seems to be the only connection.  Kanawaki was one of the first courses in North America to exclusively use Carters Seeds, along with Mayfair, Old Elm, Country Club of Detroit, Worcester Country Club, Toronto, Country Club of Brookline.  Not all of these courses were Colt designs, so we shouldn’t assume Kanawaki is either, just because they were one of the first courses in North America to use Carters products. 


Anyone looking for Ross information on Kanawaki, can find a few Canadian Golfer articles included in the top of page 10 in the “Re-Understanding Ross” thread.  These articles explain some of the changes Ross planned at Kanawaki. 

Bret Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2025, 08:43:39 AM »
Adam,


Have you ever come across this Colt ad?  He seems to be sharing advertising space with Dunn’s Golf School.


This is from Golf Magazine., August 1914:



Bret

zachary_car

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2025, 08:58:46 AM »
Bret,


Reville doesn’t mention Ross in his note; and there’s nothing further about Kanawaki’s architecture in the other editions of 1923 that I can find.




Adam Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2025, 10:54:07 AM »
Bret -- no, that ad is a new one on me. How fascinating. I must do some digging on the school.


Niall/Philip -- the North American course he designed from plans was the NLE Bowness in Calgary. He wrote a really lovely article in Country Life about it. He didn't name the course, but it is pretty clear: Anthony Gholz and I are both certain it was Bowness.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net
Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting

'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' 'Up Top: the story of Landmand' (both forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all

Niall C

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2025, 08:19:09 AM »
Adam,


What was the date of that article ?


Niall

Adam Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2025, 10:43:21 AM »
Adam,

What was the date of that article ?

Niall


December 6, 1913.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net
Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting

'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' 'Up Top: the story of Landmand' (both forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all

Ian Andrew

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2025, 12:17:06 PM »
Ever considered that "Colt and Alison" have been reduced to "Colt".
That it's a reference to Alison...
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Adam Lawrence

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2025, 01:59:20 PM »
Ever considered that "Colt and Alison" have been reduced to "Colt".
That it's a reference to Alison...


I don't think so. Alison wasn't in North America (apart from the OCGC tour in 1904) until after WW1.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net
Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting

'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' 'Up Top: the story of Landmand' (both forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all

zachary_car

Re: Kanawaki Golf Club - Possible H. S. Colt Design
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2025, 03:09:39 PM »
Ian,


Interesting thought, especially that Alison was active in Quebec throughout the 20s. Although I’ve never specifically sought out CHA in association with Kanawaki, I have done quite a bit of research on his time in Quebec in regards to his role at Grand Mère (and even Murray Bay, which I think I’ve worked out) but never found any overlap

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