[Jim Hoak]

As I watched the 8-hole playoff yesterday at the PGA Tour event in Hartford, my reaction was that they were playing the wrong holes for an interesting and exciting playoff.  For 7 holes on somewhat middle-difficult par 4's, the two players made 14 pretty routine pars--second shots on or near greens and two putts--although there were some good short putts for par.  It went on till Harris English finally made a birdie.
Wouldn't it have been a better playoff it they had been playing some half-par holes--3 1/2's or 4 1/2's?  Even some 3's or 5's?  There was some excitement in the over-all length of the playoff, but wouldn't it generally be better if playoffs were on holes with greater variability in the outcomes, rather than par after par?

[Paul Jones]

I always like to see a playoff with a Par 5 (4 1/2 even better).

[Tommy Williamsen]

I always thought that transporting players all the way back to 17 is a bit much, but I guess they TOUR wants to play 18 over and over because the fans are already in position.

[Kalen Braley]

They mentioned on the telecast it would have been better to go back to 15 instead of 17 as they had plenty of 3s, 4s, and 5s on that hole in the tourney.  And the transition back to 18 tee is perfect as its right behind 15 green.

[Cliff Hamm]

In a sudden death playoff it is important not to give the advantage to a certain type of player. A 1/2 par would likely favor the long hitter.  That is why a one hole  playoff is not the best. 

[JLahrman]

Any hole could favor one player over another. I don't think that's avoidable.


Par 5s might be interesting but if you start mixing them in then the playoff takes longer time-wise.


A half par would be interesting but it doesn't seem like most PGA venues have them for the 18th hole, and you also don't want to be sending the gallery sprinting out around the course. You're definitely stuck with using the 18th hole maybe not for every hole but pretty often.


I thought the playoff was exciting mainly because both players were coming up with quality shots and clutch putts, which doesn't have anything to do with the type of holes they were playing. They both made several 5-8 foot putts that would have been easy to miss. The only real miss I remember was English's six-footer to win on the 6th hole, which extended the playoff instead of ending it.


I don't watch much golf anymore, but my 5-year-old went to golf camp at the First Tee last week and is into watching all sports. He and my 7-year-old were very vested in seeing whether "Hiccup" or "English Muffin" was going to win. I thought I would let them watch the last hole or two of the tournament, turned into an almost 2-hour marathon!

[Tim Martin]

For two holes I like 15,18 better than 17,18. The drivable par four 15th is arguably the most exciting hole on the course from a fan perspective and is no farther from the house than 17.

[Rob Marshall]

That playoff was a perfect example of how great the short games of Pro's are. Drives in the rough and traps, missing greens but getting up and down all over the place. Great pressure putting on the par saving putts.

[Peter Flory]

My big thought on watching them play that hole over and over was that there was absolutely no strategy involved off the tee.  No way to get a better angle to the hole.  The best that could be done was to hit the fairway with as long of a drive as possible.  But it was so narrow, that getting the longest drive possible simply involved hitting the fairway to let it roll. 


It makes Hickok's birdie on the 72nd more impressive when you see how hard it was to duplicate. 

[Tim Martin]

That playoff was a perfect example of how great the short games of Pro's are. Drives in the rough and traps, missing greens but getting up and down all over the place. Great pressure putting on the par saving putts.

+1

[V. Kmetz]

Notes:
1. They both had looks despite it, but Heavy downwind (15, 17, 18) to front pins (which steadily slackened to near nothing two hours later) was a big contributor to regulation crashes and complications in the playoff.


2. 18 was/is perhaps my least favorite hole there...but the conversations here lead me back to that Match Play Hole/Course - Medal Play Hole/Course.  I admit, I've overstated the degree to how I discern the two, but the clamor (by CBS and many here) to get #15 in the mix...and its vast architectural difference to 18 and 17 refreshes me to state the summary conclusion that one feature of the difference is that a match play hole/course favors fortune over pure performance.... there's something about a "match hole," whether its blindness or an element of contour quirk or a capricious danger that can affect similar shots in disparate ways... there's usually just something about it that gives you, the average player, a slightly better chance to equal Phil Mickelson on any particular shot and  gives the high handicapper a similarly improved chance to equal you straight up.


3. Given that the did not play 15 or a long hole or a half par hole, and they played 18 five, six times... what was compelling is how they did not buckle (unless you say English did on the 7th Ph) and the true irony of inches (on those two lip burns) rose to the surface...

[Tim Gavrich]

Let's be careful not to let our recency bias persuade us that an eight-hole playoff - no matter what holes were played - was at all likely. There hadn't been one on the PGA Tour since 2012.


I'd be as enthusiastic as anyone to see them play 15 in the playoff, rather than 17. But I've been to the Travelers Championship before, and I know what a bottleneck it is to try and get from 15 to 18 and vice versa as a fan, even though both holes are very close together.


If they had used 15 as a playoff hole, it would have been difficult and potentially chaotic/dangerous to get any kind of crowd back to that green. As steep as the hill is to the right of 18 fairway, it's even steeper to the right of 15 green. That said, the tournament organizers would be wise to at least look at how they might remedy that situation for future years. I think some earthmoving might be required, though.

[Jeff Evagues]

I was trying to figure out why the standard bearer walked all 8 holes with them.

[Mark Kiely]

I was watching on my DVR last night and fast forwarding a lot, so I missed if they explained why, but I kept hoping they'd play 15 or 16. Fun to watch even though they didn't.


Also, I always set golf telecasts to record two hours extra in case of rain delays or long playoffs. Two hours yesterday got through the tee shot of the 8th playoff hole!

[Kalen Braley]

I was trying to figure out why the standard bearer walked all 8 holes with them.

So no one would forget of course.    Besides, wouldn't you want a front-row view of all the action? 

I also noticed the two big wigs from Travelers were walking behind on all those trips up 18.

[Phil Burr]

To Tim Gavrich: you mentioned the bottleneck between 15 & 18.  Do you remember back when in the first iteration of the course as a TPC, the current 15th played as #12, and then players had to circle clear around 17 green to reach the 13th tee, which is now the tee for #2?  And if you remember that, then you probably also remember that the driving range was shoehorned in between #1 & #18, and short enough that Bubba or Bryson could have reached the lake.  You had fans following a group from 12 to 13 green going in the opposite direction as fans following a group on 17, with all of those fans, plus players, caddies, scorers, etc., shoehorned into a narrow strip between the back of the range and the lake.

[Mike_Trenham]

Change the tee positions and hole locations after two plays of the same hole.

[Garland Bayley]

I was trying to figure out why the standard bearer walked all 8 holes with them.

😊 what use is a medal play score during a match play sudden death?  I guess he wanted to stay inside the ropes.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

what use is a medal play score during a match play sudden death?  I guess he wanted to stay inside the ropes.

It's not match play. It's sudden death stroke play.

It's generally not important, but some rules issues matter, etc.

[Matt_Cohn]

If you wanted to have a playoff last as long as possible, you’d probably have something like 18 at Hartford: a relatively easier hole tee-to-green with a tough hole location. Guys will consistently hit it to 20 or 30 feet, not make bogey, but usually not make birdie.


That said, that’s not exactly how the playoff went, and 14 straight pars on any hole at all is really unlikely.


A couple of weeks ago during the California Amateur at the Preserve, there was a 9-for-8 playoff to get into match play. All 9 players made par on the first playoff hole, a finicky par four with a back hole location. A real head scratcher.

[JLahrman]

Well it took 5 holes to resolve today's playoff, even with a mix of par 4s, a 142-yard par 3 (twice), and a reachable par 5. I'm not sure it was more or less exciting than the Hartford playoff.

[Garland Bayley]

 

what use is a medal play score during a match play sudden death?  I guess he wanted to stay inside the ropes.

It's not match play. It's sudden death stroke play.

It's generally not important, but some rules issues matter, etc.

 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Change the tee positions and hole locations after two plays of the same hole.

+1

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