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Steve Wilson

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #100 on: April 30, 2021, 05:15:50 PM »
No one has mentioned the 6th at Brora.


And how about the 16th at Golspie from the red tees?
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David_Tepper

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #101 on: April 30, 2021, 07:30:23 PM »
Steve -

The 6th at Bora is a very good hole, but it is hardly a short par-3. It is 153/164/190 yards (and it almost always seems to play in the wind!).

On the other hand, #13 at Brora (108/108/125 yards) is a pretty good short par-3.


DT

 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 07:40:45 PM by David_Tepper »

Ben Malach

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #102 on: April 30, 2021, 08:01:04 PM »
I would love to build a little shorter version of the 5th on the new course at St. Andrews. I think the swale in the back half of the green is one of the more interesting features for a par 3 as it breaks the green into 3 clear sections in the opposite way than most holes using a depression instead of a rise.
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Adam Clayman

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #103 on: April 30, 2021, 08:39:49 PM »
How about a par 3 inspired by a green from a par 4?
 The 7th at The Downs.
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #104 on: April 30, 2021, 09:00:06 PM »
There are a lot of good short par threes on many great courses. All of which seem to be surrounded by an abyss.

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Stewart Abramson

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #105 on: April 30, 2021, 09:36:53 PM »
I like the short one at Wildhorse.  I can’t remember the number.   


 The short hole to a tiny perched and/or pinched green has been done many times and usually is an all or nothing shot.  That hole is short to a giant green with enough contour that 4 is the likely score if you don’t control the tee shot.  I think it is a nice change of pace from the norm and somewhat up Tom’s alley.


Jason, Not sure if this is the one you meant. It's #11. 126 yards from the back tees. 79 yards to middle from the front tee which is where this photo is from. It is even less than 79 yards to this front pin



Wild Horse #11 short par 3 

Stewart Abramson

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #106 on: April 30, 2021, 10:37:42 PM »
Corballis Links has seven par 3's, four of which are very good and quite short. Each green has a lot of movement and presents different challenges. #4 is 115 yards, #6 125 yards, #13 and 17 140 yards. Each green is large enough to have several different hole positions that can play significantly different from day to day and provide different putting challenges .  If I could build one it would be #4, but I liked all four.  I think Sean A didn't like #17 for being too difficult, but my playing partner and I (neither being good golfers) both birdied it.



Corballis #4 par 3 115 yards



Corballis #4  front right corner of green 



Corballis #6 par 3 125 yards


Corballis #6 par 3 short of green


Corballis #13  par 3 140 yards


Corballis #13  view from back of green


Corballis #17 par 3 zoomed 


Corballis #17  green 

edited to fix font size
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:42:19 PM by Stewart Abramson »

Mike Hendren

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #107 on: May 01, 2021, 01:48:15 PM »
There remains only one option - the 15th green at Fenway - 90 yards to the front and 120 to the back.  Don’t make me post pics.


Tom Doak, I am calling you out. I have your name on a $100 check if you build it. 


Mike
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PCCraig

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #108 on: May 02, 2021, 09:04:04 AM »
The 11th at WBYC, although I do like that it’s one of a kind.
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Tom_Doak

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #109 on: May 02, 2021, 09:35:39 AM »

Tom Doak, I am calling you out. I have your name on a $100 check if you build it. 



 :D   Actually my design fees are higher than $100/hole.


I do like that hole but it's hardly the best in the world.  And, for the situation I've been enquiring about, the one opportunity that does present itself is having two angles of play 90 degrees apart, with the left tee a few feet higher than the green, and the right tee almost level.  I don't think your favorite works as well for that scenario, although you are free to disagree.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #110 on: May 02, 2021, 10:07:50 AM »
How about a par 3 inspired by a green from a par 4?
 The 7th at The Downs.


If you meant Crystal Downs, Tom isn’t unfamiliar with making that green into a short 3. The Mulligan course at Ballyneal has an ode to it.


My vote is for Plainfield #11. Not sure if it could be pulled off under the circumstances Tom outlines, but I like it nonetheless.

Bill Brightly

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #111 on: May 02, 2021, 01:10:12 PM »
Several have suggested NGLA #6, which I would favor, but what about the 5th at Brancaster which inspired Macdonald? Having played NGLA twice, and MANY Raynor and Banks Shorts holes, I've always felt that something was lost (or changed) in the translation. I'd be curios to see how Tom used the original features at Brancaster in his version, then compare that to NGLA. I imagine that his would be far different than the Raynor/Banks Shorts that exist today.

Mike Hendren

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #112 on: May 04, 2021, 09:58:08 AM »

Tom Doak, I am calling you out. I have your name on a $100 check if you build it. 



 :D   Actually my design fees are higher than $100/hole.


I do like that hole but it's hardly the best in the world.  And, for the situation I've been enquiring about, the one opportunity that does present itself is having two angles of play 90 degrees apart, with the left tee a few feet higher than the green, and the right tee almost level.  I don't think your favorite works as well for that scenario, although you are free to disagree.


Never said it was the best in the world.  All you have to do is widen the rear plateau and voila! a volcano hole when played from 90 degrees.   


Make it $125.


WWTD?  (What would Tillie do?)


When all else fails you could copy the highly underrated 10th green at Blue Mound.  I think you could approach that bad boy from any angle.


Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jon Sweet

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #113 on: May 04, 2021, 03:45:12 PM »
I am of the mind something similar to the 17th at the Foundry where I caddie. Green angled at about 45 degrees to the tee box, slightly down the hill, not sure if 150 max is considered short but it generally plays 110 to 140 or so depending on the tees. I would prefer it situated across the prevailing wind so it's tricky to pull a club. I like the idea on a short 3 of a poor shot being punished but a good shot rewarded. So, a pretty severe green slope wise but tends to feed to the hole. I enjoy it being tough to find a straight putt.

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #114 on: May 07, 2021, 06:43:06 PM »
. . . from scratch, which one existing hole would you take as inspiration?


For this exercise, assume we are building something like The Lido, starting with a flat sandy site.  You can move as much dirt as you want, within limits [don't give me a 60-foot drop shot], but you can't create an ocean backdrop or anything like that.  There is plenty of scope to have multiple tees / alternate tees at right angles.


I think the best example from my own work is probably the 7th at Barnbougle, but I don't really like to repeat myself.
For inspiration I might take the 3rd at Rockport. A 130-yard hole from the back tees, the hole's strategy is defined by the interaction between a pond (around the right bank of which the hole forms a crook) and a spine running front to back on a large green. When the hole is pond side of the spine the golfer must decide how much risk to take off the tee. All players have the option to play away from the pond but face a harder putt as a result.
I think it would be a fine hole for public play. The green is large, the hole is short, so it can take a lot of play, be playable for all (you can array the tees so not all face a forced carry), yet provide interest to all classes of players.
Instead of a pond you could substitute a waste area if that's what the property allows.
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Scott McWethy

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #115 on: May 09, 2021, 10:29:01 AM »
#11 at Shinnecock.  If you're going to have a short par 3, i think some elevation (nothing major) makes the holes better.  Whether it plays downhill a bit or uphill a bit, I think it adds to the hole when you have to adjust for the elevation.

Gib_Papazian

Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #116 on: May 09, 2021, 02:40:53 PM »
Something that takes the essential ingredients of #11 at Pac Dunes . . . . . that is actually my favorite short par-3 in golf. Another one I'd steal pieces of would be #13 at Spanish Bay. Not sure why it never gets credit for how diabolically well the geometry of all the elements are thought out.




Jon Claydon

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #117 on: May 11, 2021, 11:00:26 AM »
Two of my favorites that have not been mentioned here are:


#17 at Sand Hills.  It's a short par 3 that manages to strike fear in the golfer's heart even with a short iron or wedge.


#8 at Ballybunion.  Running away from the shoreline, it often has a powerful wind at your back. So while the yardage is usually around 130, the shot plays shorter but you can't risk throwing it up in the wind with a wedge.  With a small green, drop offs to the sides and tough bunkers, i've always found it a challenging and unique par 3. 

Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #118 on: May 11, 2021, 09:14:51 PM »
Just caught a pic of the 7th at Wilshire, where the green now wraps around the front bunker and extends out to the left, effectively making it a double green. Really cool concept for a short par 3, as it's now two holes in one with two fairly small targets.
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Tony Ristola

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #119 on: May 17, 2021, 11:00:31 AM »
The 8th at the Old Course with twists.


The central bunker being key, but because there likely isn’t wind to make the hole interesting, the green would be a 2-tier affair with the back of the green being the lower portion. That means the front of the green would likely be perched up above original grade.


Would make hole locations left and right of the bunker… and the tee would allow these hole locations to be played at a diagonal instead of straight on. It’s a hole I’ll build one day. Should be cheap to construct.


As an aside, The 10th at Frair’s Head reminds me a bit of the 8th at the Old Course… just a whole lot more dramatic.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 09:38:06 AM by Tony Ristola »

Matt Elliot

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #120 on: May 21, 2021, 05:10:49 PM »

I don't have near the sample size to choice from like most of you but I have two favorites.

#2 at Prairie Dunes---America's shortest par 5!  PD has 4 great par three's! 


#17 at Sandhills--like par three's at Prairie Dunes you might hit a wedge into it one day and a 5 iron the next .  Wind at both courses is a factor.

Tal Oz

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #121 on: May 21, 2021, 09:22:59 PM »
I’m a total Rustic homer so bear with me haha
 
 The short par 4 12th at Rustic Canyon has grown to be my favorite on the course. It has width, angles, a confounding green, and a tee shot that tempts newcomers on the worst line possible. Under certain circumstances it’s drivable, but I also see loads of doubles from 40-50 yards out.
 
 I think it would work wonderfully as a short par 3 and given the prompt of having a tee box at a 90* angle to the regular tee it works for that as well. The hole also doesn't require any special topography to make it function. Bonus points that you could hit a punch runner to most hole locations if the conditions are firm enough it might even be the right play! Since we’re talking about a short par 3, I will explain the approach and green complex. The left side is littered with bunkers and the green has a pronounced left to right and front to back tilt that rewards the player who can control spin and flirt with the bunkers. There’s a great back right shelf that if you miss your mark by a few feet your ball can bound 30 yards or more down the right fringe. A birdie opportunity with your ball on the tee, but can easily make 6 happen.
 
 Main tee box - 100-140y (progressively getting shorter and easier the farther right you go)
 A shot aimed at the tractor would likely release towards this pin.
 


 Alternate tee box - 80-110y
 From this angle you have a clean look at the false front you need to carry and precise distance control is required to not go into the bunkers long. A left pin (guy in black) will be easier than the pictured right pin which is a few feet from the false front. The guy in the middle is walking up a 2 foot rise in the green. Even on the small green a 2 putt is not guaranteed.
 

RJ_Daley

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #122 on: May 25, 2021, 11:01:13 PM »
T he question was, 'if' you could build a par 3, not which.  But, already mentioned are predictably my fav's, 11 Wild Horse and 17 SHGC.  17 Bayside Ogallala. 

But for shorties, I like the concepts of RTJsr., large three tier affairs with distinct levels and internal movement within each tier.  Wrong level and you bring real possibility of the 3putt into play.  Putts usually longish and even on correct level, 2putt par is earned. Also, with three tier concepts, teeing grounds from 90 angles can be less contrived and make their own set of shot interests without being over the top forced novelty for the sake of just doing it.  DeVRies has an interesting one at Kingsley.  My two cents....
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Drew Maliniak

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #123 on: May 26, 2021, 12:45:29 PM »
Memphis Country Club No. 3. Underrated drop-shot.


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Jim Sherma

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Re: If You Could Build a Short Par 3 . . .
« Reply #124 on: May 26, 2021, 12:59:04 PM »
What are the common themes moving through this conversation? I see two generalized solutions to make a short par 3 inviting to this group.


1: Tempting short shot with penal outcomes for a miss, e.g. Postage Stamp


2: Short shot with a large green where three putts for being on the wrong part of the green is very much in play, e.g. McRaynor short templates