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Tim Martin

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2021, 04:55:20 PM »
On March 26, 1973, Walton went 21-22 from the field and scored 44 points in the NCAA championship game victory over Memphis State.  I believe he had 4 buckets nullified that night due to being called for offensive goal tending (dunking was not allowed in 1973).  So yeah...he was pretty good.  Of course, being an Indiana fan, I will never be convinced that Steve Downing's blocking foul (his 5th) shouldn't have been Walton's 5th (he definitely charged), which would likely have given that semi-final game to IU (Quinn Buckner's freshman season).  Walton and Buckner would later be teammates on the Celtics (along with a pretty good player named Larry Bird...also from the great state of Indiana).


To Lynn Shackelford:   You told us a great Wooden story one night at Apache Stronghold.  Would love to hear it again.  As I recall, you and Kareem were on the freshman team and could not play varsity.  The freshman team trounced the varsity in a pre-season scrimmage (and the varsity ended up being national champions)...but the varsity was the second best team on campus.  I believe you said Coach Wooden stopped having that pre-season scrimmage because it killed the varsity team's confidence (I think that team stumbled out of the gate to start the season until they regained their confidence).  Would love to hear you (Lynn) provide those details again.


TS
A couple of thoughts.  I appreciate the kind remarks about the old days at UCLA.  I didn't realize that Bobby Knight took on Walton's team in their heyday.  His strategy employed and what he did to prep would be a great story.  In a 7 game series UCLA would probably win in 5 or 6 against IU, but Knight was a great one game coach when given the prep time.
I agree that Wooden has a great way to avoid the question of who is better Walton or Kareem.  Walton did have more basketball skills, and Kareem was always there in the big moments and won more championships. 
I wonder about Walton's vegetarian diet in his formative years that might have contributed to his fragility.  Off the court and out of the classroom he was basically a hippie on a bicycle.
The two most cerebral teams I ever watched in the NBA were the Knicks in the early 70's and Walton's Portland team's short run of dominance in the late 70's.  One night Walton was having a great game and dominating Kareem, during a timeout announcer Chick Hearn turned to me and said, "is it me or is Walton making Kareem look old and slow?"
I agree, why can't both be great, like Russell and Wilt, Oscar and Jerry, Magic and Larry, Lebron and Michael.
In 1965 the long awaited Pauley Pavilion was to open and it was decided what better way than to continue the tradition of the annual preseason Varsity vs Freshmen game.  It had be played for years as a mechanism to raise a few hundred dollars for a recruiting budget.  Wooden went along thinking the 18 year old freshmen would panic under the bright lights.  With 4 high school All Americans, Shackelford, Alcindor, Lucius Allen and Ken Heitz, a sellout crowd and local TV, we easily prevailed 75-60.  The varsity had been a pre season No. 1 pick coming off two championships in 64 and 65.  After the game with us celebrating down the hall in our locker room, Wooden paced the floor in the varsity locker room which was deadly quiet and embarrassed.  Trying to muster up something to say, in typical Wooden fashion, he stopped pacing, looked and said, "well it looks like we are going to be pretty good next year."


Lynn-That’s great stuff and especially the audible Wooden called when addressing the varsity after getting dusted off by the freshman. Finally I loved the early 70’s Knicks and rue that the team hasn’t produced another championship since 1973.

Ira Fishman

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2021, 05:15:10 PM »
I would add only that the 1966 NCAA Championship that was the only interruption to the UCLA run until NC State may have been the most significant Championship game in our lifetimes. Loyola Chicago in 1963 made the point, but they did not get the chance to beat Rupp.


Ira





Bill Seitz

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2021, 05:32:56 PM »
About 25 years ago when I was in college, we used to play Coach K College Basketball on Sega Genesis.  They had about 32 current (1995) teams and a bunch of classic teams, including the '69 UCLA team (all numbers, no names, and of course, no compensation).  As a lifelong Bruins fan, I would take the '95 national championship team against the '69 team, and play a 2-3 zone to shut down Kareem.  The strategy worked on the inside, but would leave the perimeter open, where #53 would go for about 40 points per game.  Guy could really shoot.


What would be more interesting to me than seeing how Kareem and Walton would do in today's game is seeing how Kareem and Walton would have developed their games in order to be effective in today's game.  I think I saw Kareem take (and make) one three pointer in his NBA career.  Though I guess Moses Brown just signed a multi-year deal and has been effective for OKC recently, and in his year at UCLA, if he got more than six feet from the basket, he was just dead weight on offense, so there's still some room in the NBA for athletic big men that can't shoot. 

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2021, 05:47:48 PM »
Speaking of great centers. Why is Bill Laimbeer’s coaching genius being squandered in the WNBA. Could it be that he doesn’t understand how to let modern superstars enter the lane like it’s a quick checkout at Piggly Wiggly. I miss the smash mouth basketball of that Walton had no fear.

Peter Flory

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2021, 06:43:21 PM »
Speaking of great centers. Why is Bill Laimbeer’s coaching genius being squandered in the WNBA. Could it be that he doesn’t understand how to let modern superstars enter the lane like it’s a quick checkout at Piggly Wiggly. I miss the smash mouth basketball of that Walton had no fear.


He got blackballed from the NBA.  I spent 10 years hoping that the Pistons would hire him to coach. 

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2021, 06:47:01 PM »
I had Bulls season tickets in the 80’s. I loved to hate Bill. What did he do to get ostracized? The BB word is no longer kosher.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2021, 06:59:57 PM »
Yea I'm going with the black-balled explanation.  Its not like he was an innocent victim minding his own business, he alienated pretty much anyone not on Team Detroit and perhaps even a few of them.

Once again, I may be in the minority, but I don't miss the knock em down, grind it out style of the late 80s thru the mid 90s.  Even today's game allows for far more contact than what the game originally was.. a mostly non-contact sport.

Tim Martin

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2021, 07:34:38 PM »
Yea I'm going with the black-balled explanation.  Its not like he was an innocent victim minding his own business, he alienated pretty much anyone not on Team Detroit and perhaps even a few of them.

Once again, I may be in the minority, but I don't miss the knock em down, grind it out style of the late 80s thru the mid 90s.  Even today's game allows for far more contact than what the game originally was.. a mostly non-contact sport.


The outlawing of the hand check changed the NBA game.





Kalen Braley

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2021, 07:42:06 PM »
Yea I'm going with the black-balled explanation.  Its not like he was an innocent victim minding his own business, he alienated pretty much anyone not on Team Detroit and perhaps even a few of them.

Once again, I may be in the minority, but I don't miss the knock em down, grind it out style of the late 80s thru the mid 90s.  Even today's game allows for far more contact than what the game originally was.. a mostly non-contact sport.

The outlawing of the hand check changed the NBA game.

It was a number of things, but yes that was probably the biggest factor.

- Enforcing Intentional and Flagrant fouls as such
- Issuing suspensions for players getting in fights and/or coming off the bench
- Calling fouls away from the ball for rough play and/or issuing technicals.
- Etc.


Nigel Islam

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2021, 10:30:12 PM »
Walton was the 1970s equivalent to Draymond Green. The perfect player for those talented Blazer and Celtics champions as he did not need to score to impact the game in a transcendent way.

Phil Burr

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2021, 10:32:28 PM »
These questions are for Lynn as nobody is in a better position to provide an insightful answer:


Your breakdown showing Bill being better than Kareem in everything except inside scoring: is that comparison specific to their times as collegiate players?  And although I can't disagree with your breakdown, are some of Bill's pluses exaggerated by his hustle and willingness to throw his body around, whereas Kareem played with a more controlled style?


As a pro, Kareem averaged about 20% more minutes per game.  With the benefit of the additional playing, his rebounds per game, assists per game, steals per game and blocks per game were all higher than Bill's.  It's easy to focus on his scoring but it appears he was more than capable in other statistical areas.  And didn't the range of his skyhook expand over the years to the point where it bordered on an outside shot?  I guess I'm asking if Bill was at his very peak in college, whereas KAJ perhaps grew into his game once he reached the NBA.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2021, 05:45:37 PM »
Barney,

You are just jealous of his good looks and intelligence. While riding a train in Europe, a former UCLA player turned male model came into my compartment to talk to me because he mistook me for Bill Walton.   ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2021, 05:58:58 PM »
Barney,

You are just jealous of his good looks and intelligence. While riding a train in Europe, a former UCLA player turned male model came into my compartment to talk to me because he mistook me for Bill Walton.   ;D


Sure it wasn’t Gib? He has half your description going on.

SL_Solow

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2021, 06:21:27 PM »
I try to stay out of these OT conversations but I can't resist.  A few observations from a lover of basketball who began watching and analyzing as a boy in the late 50's and saw everyone mentioned in these threads although not nearly as closely as my friend Lynn with respect to the UCLA centers.


1.  It is difficult in any sport to compare players across eras.  A player can only be as good as or better than those he competed with.  I believe that  in most cases, the best are comparable.  Ruth would be great today.  Mays and Aaron would be special. Jones, Hogan and Nicklaus would be stars on tour.  The press has no sense of history and hypes the current game.  There are less than a handful of current commentators who are worth listening to about anything other than tactics.


2.  For those who think the game was physical in the late 80's-90's, you should have seen how it was played in the late 50's and early 60's.  Unrecognizable and extremely physical'
3.  I have to take issue with my friend John Kirk.  Statistically, shooting percentages went way up with the near universal adoption of the jump shot which did not take place until the mid 60's.  Prior to that time, the players had been taught to shoot set shots.  Accordingly, it was more difficult to get an "open look".  That is one of the reasons that the league emphasized the fast break, after the creation of the 24 second clock, as the only way to get consistently good looks.  As for set plays, the old Celtics were famous for having a series of about 6 plays with multiple options that everybody knew but few could defend due to superb execution.  Think of an early version of a motion offense( not to be confused with the Auburn shuffle).
4.  Anybody who denigrates Wilt's athleticism only saw him play at the end.  There wasn't anything he couldn't do except shoot free throws (psychological, he was great in practice) and beat Russell's Celts.  Most of his points were by way of a deadly and unblockable fall away jump shot, not dunks.  He could run the floor and he was very strong (understatement).
5. Russell was not a scorer unless he needed to be.  Along with Jordan the best competitor I ever saw; had he needed to score I am sure he could have.  Reinvented defense, great athlete with superb timing and very smart.  In his last year, when he was a player coach, and when zones were illegal, I saw him break the back of a younger, favored Bullets team in the NBA finals by bringing the ball up against the press because he was quicker than the Bullets' MVP rookie center, Wes Unseld.
6. Whoever said Cousy was a glorified AAU player never saw him. Extremely good with the ball. a fine scorer although he was limited by having been taught only a set shot so his shooting percentage was lousy by modern standards.  Very long arms, a very creative passer. Think of him as a prototype for John Stockton.
7.  Walton's career was ruined by injuries.  At his best he was another great competitor who did what was needed to win.  Fundamentally very sound.  Those who noted the difference between Portland with Walton and without him are correct. The Portland team was largely a product of Ramsay's coaching and Walton's dominance.   Lucas was a superb power forward and Hollins was an above average 2 guard with limited range.  Dave Twardzik started and split time with Davis at the other guard.  Neither could be considered special and who remembers Gross at the other forward?  But the beauty of the game is that they fit together and were dominant until the player who made everything work was injured.  That was Walton
8. Finally, Barney, I watched Laimbeer play starting when he was on some good Notre Dame teams. Mentioning him in the same breath with Jabbar, Chamberlain, Russell, Walton (pre-injury) and numerous others only suggests that you are either not serious (likely) or unqualified for this discussion.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 06:22:58 PM by SL_Solow »

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2021, 06:33:05 PM »


8. Finally, Barney, I watched Laimbeer play starting when he was on some good Notre Dame teams. Mentioning him in the same breath with Jabbar, Chamberlain, Russell, Walton (pre-injury) and numerous others only suggests that you are either not serious (likely) or unqualified for this discussion.


Thanks for the laugh. Being with all those people in Chicago screaming at that boob were some of the best nights of my life.

SL_Solow

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2021, 06:51:33 PM »
Barney,  glad you enjoyed it.  Be assured, my analysis of his ability has nothing to do with any rooting interest or what type of person he may be.  Some of the players on the great Bulls teams that were (adored) in my time were less than admirable off the court.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2021, 06:59:01 PM »
Barney,  glad you enjoyed it.  Be assured, my analysis of his ability has nothing to do with any rooting interest or what type of person he may be.  Some of the players on the great Bulls teams that were (adored) in my time were less than admirable off the court.


Just to be clear a Google search didn't reveal any scandals. He is a golfer and I would hate for him to stumble upon another hack job. I enjoy seeing a man with few physical attributes succeed on an international level. He used what he got.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Laimbeer

Mike Schott

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2021, 08:59:25 PM »
Kareem Abdul Jabbar is often called the greatest college basketball player of all time.


Kareem vs Bill


Passing  Bill
Defending  Bill
Rebounding  Bill
Hustle and Enthusiasm Bill
Scoring inside Kareem
Scoring outside Bill
Championships Kareem 3, Bill 2(mostly due to Bill's anomalous behavior as a senior)
Teammate off the court, like most 7 footers both are unconventional; more like Tillinghast and John Bredemus
Once late into the night at a reunion with Walton present some of us who played with Kareem were whining about him being difficult at times to play with and Walton said, "I don't like hearing these stories about Kareem."


That was a long time ago now and memories have faded. SO much depends on their teammates strengths and weaknesses. While Abdul-Jabbar had Curtis Rowe and Sidney Wicks, Walton had Jamaal Wilkes, Marques Johnson and Dave Meyers. I'd say he had a better supporting cast although both were exceptional. Jabbar basically reinvented the post position. Both are among the greatest college centers of all time.

Jeff Schley

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2021, 01:22:00 AM »


That was a long time ago now and memories have faded. SO much depends on their teammates strengths and weaknesses. While Abdul-Jabbar had Curtis Rowe and Sidney Wicks, Walton had Jamaal Wilkes, Marques Johnson and Dave Meyers. I'd say he had a better supporting cast although both were exceptional. Jabbar basically reinvented the post position. Both are among the greatest college centers of all time.
Mike kudos for mentioning Dave Meyers, who I knew as he was a middle school teacher in Lake Elsinore where I was teaching at the time as well. Great guy and unfortunately died in his early 60's.  Very humble man who turned down offers to coach at the college and pro level after leaving the NBA.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

SL_Solow

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2021, 09:40:02 AM »
In for a little; in for a lot.  Mike; Rowe and Wicks only played one year with Alcindor/Jabbar.  They were sophomores in 1968/1969 when Kareem led the Bruins to their 3rd consecutive title with Kareem (then Lew) as MVP all 3 years.  Rowe, Wicks and Henry Bibby were the bridge to the Walton teams.  The core of the team led by Kareem were Mike Warren who was a year older, Lucious Allen, who had a nice NBA career, Kenny Heitz, who went on to Harvard Law School, and our own Lynn Shackelford.  Other than Kareem, it was a small team but not as small as the teams Wooden won with led by Hazzard and Goodrich.  As far as Kareem changing the position, how so?  He was better than just about anybody (Russell and Wilt can lay a claim) and his sky hook was better than any prior hooks although there had been many with a great hook, but he was essentially a back to the basket player.  More mobile and more skilled but nothing that changed the game.  His exceptional height coupled with his ability as well as the style of the Elvin Hayes' Houston teams led to a short term ban on dunks in the amateur game but there was nothing in his game that led others to copy him in a way that altered the way the position was played.  I would suggest that Russell's demonstration of the value of a rim protecting shot blocker had a much greater impact.

Cob Carlson

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2021, 09:41:14 AM »
Late to this thread's party, but had to jump in. What a ton of fun to read the submissions. There are clearly strong connections between the game of golf and the game of basketball. In my side gig as a free throw consultant, I have drawn comparisons to the pre-shot routine in golf with mastering the free throw, and how making a free throw is easier than draining a four foot putt.


Bill Walton...I have been an long time admirer...his college days, his brilliant but hampered pro career, his life long love of bicycling and the great outdoors, his fondness for the Grateful Dead, his short lived bee pollen company, his charitable work, and yes, his unique broadcasting style.


What we mostly have in both college basketball and golf broadcasting is milquetoast observation and commentary. There is a plethora of stating the obvious, tired old cliches..."they've developed a culture..."  "...he is so resilient..."  Bill speaks off the cuff and from the heart, always injects humor and passion, and can be outlandish, but it is always refreshing. And what deserves to be lauded is the fact that he overcame a serious stutter to get to this point of unique eloquence.


Thank you Lynn, for your insights, and behind the curtain anecdotes. I would only disagree on Bill's frailty being attributed to his vegetarian diet during the Portland days. He grew way too fast as a kid, and that fact wreaked havoc on his lower extremities for a lifetime. In today's N.B.A., Kyrie irving has adopted a plant based diet, and there is no one on the planet who can defend him or keep up with his ridiculous sweet handle.


The Portland Trailblazers, with Bill the literal center of the squad, were absolute poetry in motion. I've been a lifelong Celtic fan (after reading Bill Russell's 'GO UP FOR GLORY' as a kid), so I've always loved teams that fast break and exhibit crisp cutting and passing. The Blazers reminded me of Russell and his teams. Walton orchestrated the Blazers' breaks with his spot on overhead outlet passes. In the half court, he would always make the right passes to his teammates off the post. He made them better! And he did the same when he played for the Celtics. His passing was extraordinary.


It is futile to make G.O.A.T. comparisons with Kareem, Wilt, Shaq. etc. It is akin to arguing which is the best golf course amongst all the great ones - Pine Valley, The Old Course, Cypress, Winged Foot, #2...they are all super!


I highly recommend checking out the 1977 Trailblazer playoff highlights on YouTube.



Jerry Kluger

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2021, 01:04:46 PM »

I am so old that I went to all 4 games of the NBA finals at Madison Square Garden in 1970.  It was tough rooting for the Lakers but that team with Jerry West, Elgin Baylor and Wilt Chamberlin was amazing - 3 hall of fame players together.  I was in school in New York at the time and one of my classmates had an in at Madison Square Garden and I asked him for 4 tickets and he got them for me. 

Kareem and Walton were certainly great collegiate players but Pete Maravich and David Thompson were far more exciting to watch.




John Kirk

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2021, 01:30:00 PM »

3.  I have to take issue with my friend John Kirk.  Statistically, shooting percentages went way up with the near universal adoption of the jump shot which did not take place until the mid 60's.  Prior to that time, the players had been taught to shoot set shots. 

Accordingly, it was more difficult to get an "open look".  That is one of the reasons that the league emphasized the fast break, after the creation of the 24 second clock, as the only way to get consistently good looks.  As for set plays, the old Celtics were famous for having a series of about 6 plays with multiple options that everybody knew but few could defend due to superb execution.  Think of an early version of a motion offense( not to be confused with the Auburn shuffle).

4.  Anybody who denigrates Wilt's athleticism only saw him play at the end.  There wasn't anything he couldn't do except shoot free throws (psychological, he was great in practice) and beat Russell's Celts.  Most of his points were by way of a deadly and unblockable fall away jump shot, not dunks.  He could run the floor and he was very strong (understatement).

I must take issue with my friend and esteemed colleague SL.  LOL.  The big change in pro basketball the last ten or fifteen years is the leap in the player's ball skills.  Especially shooting and dribbling, but I'd also argue that passing skills have improved.  So far, the shooting percentages in the 2020-21 season are as follows:

3-pt. shooting:  36.7%   (12.7 made per game)
2-pt. shooting:  53.6%
FT shooting:  77.8%


Let's look at 1985, semi-randomly selected:

3-pt. shooting:  28.2%  (0.9 made per game (per team))
2-pt. shooting:  49.9%
FT shooting:  76.4%

I'll meet you halfway on this subject.  I agree that jump shooting improved shooting, because it helped players escape the defense.  Another problem with shooting in the old days was poor technique, set shots using two hands, or shot from a low release point.  Hand checking and general defensive rules use to favor the defenders.  Ever had somebody hand checking you while trying to dribble from A to B?  Much harder, check that, impossible.


A couple of years ago, I watched another one of these vintage broadcasts on NBA TV, a 1985 playoff game between the Lakers and Celtics.  The Lakers won the 6th game and the series.  In the game, Danny Ainge went 3-16 and Dennis Johnson went 3-15 from the field.  They kept missing 15-18 foot jumpers.  These were huge physical teams, with 6-5 guards, 6-9 forwards and 7 foot centers.  In retrospect, the spacing looked awful; everybody was bunched together and nobody could get open.

The Lakers-Celtics rivalry was my favorite era of basketball, but if these teams were transported as is to play the recent Warrior dynasty, I believe they'd get run out of the gym in four games.  The great shooting, dribbling and passing would overwhelm them.

The overall truth is that players have improved consistently throughout the years in all aspects of the game.  Like SL says, it's hard to judge players across eras, since these keenly competitive personalities would find a way to succeed.

My favorite players tend not to be the great scorers, but the guys who do the less obvious things that help the team win.  I think Bill Walton is one of those players, that his contribution to the championship team is less obvious.  He does what needs to be done.

My favorite player in this regard is Dennis Rodman.  I became a devoted fan when he joined the San Antonio Spurs and started leading the league in rebounding every year.  I went to see the Spurs play to see how he did it.  The Spurs would run plays to a strong side, leaving Rodman at the weak side post of the offense, with some poor guy trying to keep Dennis from getting missed shots.  I knew when Rodman joined the Bulls that he was a great acquisition.  Great defender, great athlete.  In 1997-8 he led the league in rebounding for the seventh straight year at age 36.  You may have noticed that during the big ESPN documentary on the 97-98 season, that virtually no one had an unkind word about Dennis.  What a ballplayer.


My modern favorite underrated genius is Rajan Rondo, who has a knack for making plays that lead to easy baskets.  In his case, it's not as much hustle plays as finding players open for layups and dunks with phenomenal passes.  I'm looking forward to see if he can help the Clippers get further in the playoffs, though he won't have an Anthony Davis as a recipient of his brilliance.  Adding Rondo to the Clips will make me root for them a bit more, though I wish he had stayed with the Lakers.

Last observation of the post.  I grew up in the Bay Area, and our best player for several years was Rick Barry.  Perhaps guys like Pete Maravich were more entertaining, but watching Barry play a handful of times each year was very exciting.  A very well rounded offensive game, and he was a relentless attacker.  That guy loved to score buckets.  We had our one moment in the sun when the Warriors won the 1975 title by upsetting the Bullets in a four game sweep.  I went to both Finals games; our big group of friends stayed up all night in line at the San Francisco box office to get tickets.


Basketball remains my favorite thing.  I agree with Cob's description of free throws and putting.  Otherwise, basketball reminds me of jazz music.  I agree with a lot of what Cob says.  My wife has been eating a plant-based diet for four plus years now.  It's clearly superior to the typical American diet, but you have to be diligent to get all the nutrients you need.  And you're right, Kyrie Irving probably has the greatest moves in the history of the game.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2021, 02:07:42 PM »

The Lakers-Celtics rivalry was my favorite era of basketball, but if these teams were transported as is to play the recent Warrior dynasty, I believe they'd get run out of the gym in four games.  The great shooting, dribbling and passing would overwhelm them.

My favorite player in this regard is Dennis Rodman.  I became a devoted fan when he joined the San Antonio Spurs and started leading the league in rebounding every year.  I went to see the Spurs play to see how he did it.  The Spurs would run plays to a strong side, leaving Rodman at the weak side post of the offense, with some poor guy trying to keep Dennis from getting missed shots.  I knew when Rodman joined the Bulls that he was a great acquisition.  Great defender, great athlete.  In 1997-8 he led the league in rebounding for the seventh straight year at age 36.  You may have noticed that during the big ESPN documentary on the 97-98 season, that virtually no one had an unkind word about Dennis.  What a ballplayer.


John,

Excellent post as usual.  Wanted to focus in on a few things you addressed.

Its amazing how much resistance I get when claiming the GSW dynasty would eviscerate either of those Celts/Lakers 80s teams.  Between KD doing whatever he wanted inside or out, and Steph and Klay shooting from anywhere, I cant see how either team would slow them down, much less figure out how to handle them.  And their elite D often gets overlooked with their ability to switch on any screen combo and force teams into taking tough shots. Yes they would likely get out-rebounded, but rebounding alone doesn't get you a win against them especially if you can't consistently put up 120+ PPG.

P.S. Ditto on Rodman, nothing else to add other than he's the kind of guy everyone wants on their team and thankful they don't have to go up against his endless motor/hustle. He's not well liked in Utah as they still worship the Stockton/Malone days and he was certainly Karl's kryptonite.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Why was Bill Walton good at basketball?
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2021, 02:10:28 PM »
The improvement in ball, floor and rim technology can not be ignored in the change on how the game is played.