OT - The Vagueries of Match Play

[David_Tepper]

Looking at the outcome of the group stages of the WGC Matchplay, John Rahm (#3) and Tommy Fleetwood (#21) were the only two of the top 29 seeds to make it thru to the round of 16 elimination bracket. Rahm was the only top seed to win his group. Eight of the 16 players to win their group and make the elimination bracket were seeded 48th or higher (or should I say lower) among the 64 entrants. 

Poulter (#60), van Rooyen (#62) and  Frittelli (#64) won their groups.

[JMEvensky]

For players this good and this close in skill level, 18 hole matches are a coin toss--which player has a hot/cold run of a few holes frequently decides the winner.


It would certainly be a better tournament if they cut the starting field in half and played 36 hole matches like the old Piccadilly World Match Play. I understand why that will never happen.

[James Reader]

Is that really what we’re seeing here?  Or is it the case that being one of the best strokeplay golfers in the World is not necessarily the same as being one of the best matchplay golfers?  If there were many more matchplay events, would the top of the OWGR look the same as it does today?


Is anyone really surprised that Poulter, Kuchar, Watson and Spieth won their groups, even though they were the lowest ranked in them, or that Garcia is also through?  It’s not much of a stretch to say that Poulter would very likely be a major champion (and possibly a multiple winner) if even one of the four had been matchplay throughout his career, or that Garcia would probably have more than one.


Looked at from the other end, would Walter Hagen be third on the list of career major winners if the USPGA hadn’t been a matchplay event back in the day?


I’m all for changing the format, but cutting the field would be a mistake as far as I’m concerned.  Obviously, there has to be a cut off somewhere, and the reality is that’s always going to be based on performance in strokeplay events, but reducing the field to 32 would exclude several of the very best in the world at the test that this event is all about.  Frankly, I think getting rid of the seedlings would be a better option.  There’s a very good chance it would lead to more matches between the “top” players, and to more of them making it through to the latter stages.  It’s clear that the current format is achieving neither!

[Joe Zucker]

I think it's more about the course not favoring bombers as much, rather than there be better matchplay vs. stroke play players.  I have no doubt that some players have a knack for match play and some of the guys making it through are very long (Bubba, Rahm, Frittelli), but the standard boring tour course places a huge premium on hitting it 330.  ACC is more awkward with change in elevation and some fairways that pinch in. It's classic Dye in that it looks quite intimidating, even though there is room to miss.


I've only walked the course, but it seems like one that favors guys like Kisner and Harmon because it's harder to separate yourself with driver.  However, I have no counterfactual because they have never played a stroke play event at ACC.

[JohnVDB]

The thing about this is that they went to this format so the best players wouldn’t be knocked out on day one.  So here we are at the weekend and only 1 of them is left.

[Peter Flory]

It's just so much more interesting to watch.  This morning it's like watching 8 separate golf tournaments at once. 

[David_Tepper]

Watson vs. Harmon. Wow!!!

Harman is 4 down after 6 holes, then birdies 7 holes in a row. Wins the match 2&1.

[Pete_Pittock]

I think it's more about the course not favoring bombers as much, rather than there be better matchplay vs. stroke play players.  I have no doubt that some players have a knack for match play and some of the guys making it through are very long (Bubba, Rahm, Frittelli), but the standard boring tour course places a huge premium on hitting it 330.  ACC is more awkward with change in elevation and some fairways that pinch in. It's classic Dye in that it looks quite intimidating, even though there is room to miss.


I've only walked the course, but it seems like one that favors guys like Kisner and Harmon because it's harder to separate yourself with driver.  However, I have no counterfactual because they have never played a stroke play event at ACC.

The Tour seems to be chasing its own tail in course selection and setup. This is a pleasant diversion and I'd like to see a couple
more on the schedule to complement Houston Memorial, Harbour Town Waialae and Riviera

[David_Tepper]

We have a Sunday of Scheffler, Horschel, Kuchar & Perez. Nice guys, really good players, but not a lot of "star power" there.

Now we know why TV networks and tournament sponsors are not in a hurry to stage more matchplay events. 

The obvious exceptions are the Ryder, Solheim and Presidents Cups. But they are much different events, where team play, patriotism and nationalism are part of the equation. Those events also feature the very best players from the participating countries and regions.

[Kalen Braley]

We have a Sunday of Scheffler, Horschel, Kuchar & Perez. Nice guys, really good players, but not a lot of "star power" there.

Now we know why TV networks and tournament sponsors are not in a hurry to stage more matchplay events. 

The obvious exceptions are the Ryder, Solheim and Presidents Cups. But they are much different events, where team play, patriotism and nationalism are part of the equation. Those events also feature the very best players from the participating countries and regions.

David,

And more importantly, the viewers are guaranteed to see everyone on Sunday and more than likely all of them on Saturday too. 

I tuned in this weekend, but mostly because I enjoyed watching these guys play the course.  If it had been last weeks venue at the Water Ball Slog in Florida, pretty sure I would have not...

[JLahrman]

The thing about this is that they went to this format so the best players wouldn’t be knocked out on day one.  So here we are at the weekend and only 1 of them is left.

Not to mention so that more of them would show up in the first place, being guaranteed at least three rounds.

[Garland Bayley]

Is that really what we’re seeing here?  Or is it the case that being one of the best strokeplay golfers in the World is not necessarily the same as being one of the best matchplay golfers?  If there were many more matchplay events, would the top of the OWGR look the same as it does today?

I had these kind of questions after simulating a match play event with the Players Championship scoring.
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,69489.0.html
Is the genius of match play steady scoring vs. running hot and cold? Or, visa versa? I am not a statistician, so I have no skills to figure out what characteristics make the better match player vs. the better medal player. Or, maybe it is just as Bobby Jones would indicate that even in match play you have to do the best you can against the course. While that may be true for top players in his league, I don't think it is true for the average guy, who I believe is better off reacting to his opponents troubles than just playing the course.

Or, maybe being the best at match play simply means being lucky enough to avoid the hot shooting opponent.



Is anyone really surprised that Poulter, Kuchar, Watson and Spieth won their groups, even though they were the lowest ranked in them, or that Garcia is also through?  It’s not much of a stretch to say that Poulter would very likely be a major champion (and possibly a multiple winner) if even one of the four had been matchplay throughout his career, or that Garcia would probably have more than one.


Looked at from the other end, would Walter Hagen be third on the list of career major winners if the USPGA hadn’t been a matchplay event back in the day?


I’m all for changing the format, but cutting the field would be a mistake as far as I’m concerned.  Obviously, there has to be a cut off somewhere, and the reality is that’s always going to be based on performance in strokeplay events, but reducing the field to 32 would exclude several of the very best in the world at the test that this event is all about.  Frankly, I think getting rid of the seedlings would be a better option.  There’s a very good chance it would lead to more matches between the “top” players, and to more of them making it through to the latter stages.  It’s clear that the current format is achieving neither!