Great Potential Land for Golf Courses in the Future

[NAF]

All of those pictures taken of the NGLA outing last weekend had me thinking of when I was last out there and stumbled upon the Bayberry property while getting lost (a little) trying to find NGLA through the back door. I can only surmise that this will be one of the true great remaining properties left on earth for development of a golf course and hopefully will be tendered with the correct care and designer.   I was wondering about other potential sites for great golf courses.  A quick iteration of my memory tossed out the following..

*The dunes out by Montauk Point.  This may be the best dunesland I've seen in America if only a course could be built. I think it is state park land and we all know about the LI environmental lobby.

*The Adriatic Coastline of Italy.  A friend who will remain nameless sent me some pix of some great low profile dunes that reminded me of South Carolina

*The Skeleton Coast of Namibia- Yeah you are all wondering if I've gone off the deepend but unless you've been there as I've been you would be amazed by the dunescape. Truly world class golf could be built here. Too bad this isnt South Africa.

*Nebraska-I don't know about anyone else but when I was driving around the Sand Hills I dreamed up more golf holes than Bill and Ben Crenshaw did when they did the course. Truly the holy grail of places left on earth. Too bad the Inland Sea that used to be in this part of North America isnt handy to lend the salt air smell that I kept wondering I would find when I was in Mullen.

Does anyone agree or have other locales they would recommend?  Where will the next great course be built??

[Rick Shefchik]

You can't help but be overwhelmed by the possibilities of more great golf holes in the sand hills when you visit Nebraska. I was also greatly taken by the possibility of great prairie/grassland courses in the Northeast corner of Colorado on my last drive through that area.

A few years ago some publication ran several spectacular photos of the rocky coast of China -- looked like there were great opportunities there for more CP/PB-style courses.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Noel,
What a great thread! I know myself of at least a hundred different spots that would be absolutely conducive to GREAT golf. The Italy thing sounds like a good one too because lets face it, the motherland needs a great one!

The Oregon Coast:
Lots of stuff still available more specifically North & South of Tillamook, Yachats, North of Coos Bay, and more specifically, the complete razing of Sandpines to start all over.

The California Coast:
Sand City and all over that area Pasaino Pete will tell you. Then you have some really great stuff in Cambria that isn't links, but its pretty cool. Below Pismo you have huge sand duens and fields that are screaming golf course. Down South to Camp Pendleton, yo have the infamous site for the Pendelton Golf Links designed by John Grant and Dr. Alister MacKenzie!

Baja:
The Hidden Country--Think out of th box here on this one, because I do think it would be really cool to build something great down there. Imagine gorging yourself out on a meal of Lobsters, Shrimp, Margaritas etc. after playing on real sandy dunes and links in a warm weather climate?

[Tim_Weiman]

NAF,

No list would be complete without Inch, the property Arthur Spring has been working for more the 12 years to permit.

As I explained to one prominent developer recently: "Even if there is only a one percent chance that it will ever happen, the property is worth seeing.......no I take that back......even if the authorities make a final ruling against permitting, Inch is still worth spending a full day at just for the dreams it can inspire".

During my only tour of the property, a close Irish friend asked me: "After all the superlatives that have been used to describe potential golf properties, what words do you use?"

Arthur had his one word answer: "orgasmic".

[Mike_Sweeney]

Noel,

There are a series of dunes that I have mentioned here in the past that sit near Carova, NC which sits between The Outer Banks and Virginia Beach, VA. Corova is roughly a 250 house town (1 fire station is the town) on the Atlantic Ocean that is accessible only via 4 wheel drive on the beach. The story is they got permitting, for 2 or 3 thousand houses, but only a couple hundred have been built as there are no town services. If you do a search on the internet for Carova, (Carolina o Virginia) you can buy a beachfront lot for an Ireland price. Seems like book readers and surfers are the main summer residents. However there are miles of dunes that surround it, especially to the Virginia side that would be prime golfing territory.

It is all protected by the Feds, so nothing will be built there in our lifetime.

[NAF]

Tommy,

I think you may underestimate the power of Nebraska.  It may be better than Cali or Oregon but I agree with you on the potentialities for those sites.

.

So what do you think about Nebraska?

Tim--where is this property??

[brad_miller]

Someone will one day build a great course within a short distance of Prairie Dunes, I just don't think it will be Nick Faldo and the current project. Cottenwood Hills

[Tim_Weiman]

NAF:

Inch can be seen across Dingle Bay while playing at Dooks.

[Jim_Kennedy]

NAF,
Not to be overlooked in the quest for potentially good sites are this countries landfills.
Some plusses:
-EPA regs. limit most landfills to 20/30 year lifespans so there is probably a ready supply of them in many well populated areas of the country.
-The land would be cheap to lease from most municpalities, what else can they use it for?
-There would be little trouble moving material around to create some interesting features.  
-There would be great potential for using methane fuel for the clubhouse and the machinery.
-You wouldn't have to worry about an architect designing any water hazards on a landfill site or planting any trees either.

[THuckaby2]

Jim:

Here in CA there have been quite a few courses built in landfills in the last couple decades... most tend to work pretty well, but they're not the panacea they would seem.  For one thing, settling is constantly an issue... and from what I can tell the methane is more of a pain than a help...

They also sure do put lakes and trees on these courses.  Lots of them!

TH

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
I was writing in general terms, i.e., there is less chance for water or trees to be used on landfills that have been capped.

City of Phoenixs' course is an example.

[THuckaby2]

Jim - gotcha.
There sure must be lots of old landfill out there anyway....

TH

[Matthew Schulte]

Tom Doak is actually working on a project in that land mentioned in northeastern Colorado.  It will be a private club called "Ballyneal."  It sounds like they have a wonderful piece of property that has some very dramatic sand dunes.  It will be a walking only course.  They will be using fescue and it will be designed for firm and fast playing conditions.  I understand they are hoping to be playing golf there by late summer 2005.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
I wonder if this will qualify as one of the best sites for golf?
http://www.hackensackriverkeeper.org/Articles.php?ID=5

[Bruce Katona]

You are talking about building on land fills with great locations. Bayonne Golf Club is being constructed on an old landfill next to the Military Ocean Terminal on the Hudson River Waterfront with views of lower Manhattan and the boroughs of NYC.  Not easily permitted, costly to construct; but a spectacualr location.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Noel, you want Nebraska? Well, here is Nebraska! I might get in trouble for posting these, but here goes!

Situated near Valentine, Nebraska some +/-75 miles North of Sand Hills, near the Samuel McKenzie National Forest and the Valentine National Wildlife refuge, right on the Snake River. It is also home of the next creation from Gil Hanse, Geoff Shackelford & Jim Wagner. They have 36 holes already routed, and the plans are unique in that it will offer fishing, horseback riding and many other activities, all with the clubhouse over-looking this beautiful property.

Here are the images of what will be the first 18


12th hole second shot

17th tee view

18th tee view

18th second shot

7th hole

Glimpse of the back nine area

Some wonderful blowouts for a par three hole

The lodge site

"The Pit" How does this bunker fit into that made or unmade rules thread? I'm told this is going to be made into the US version of the famed "Chalk Pit"  par three hole at Royal Eastbourne!

View from the 12th green

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Imagine sitting on a porch or patio eating a big huge Nebraska cow, drinking some really good juice after playing all day out there!

[THuckaby2]

Tommy:

Holey moley... wow... yowza...

Man that looks cool.

Those views at the bottom also look a lot
like the view out the back of the
restaurant or off the patios at
Sand Hills....

TH

[Rick Shefchik]

Tommy -- Fantastic. It looks like two completely different sites.

I remember driving through Valentine on the way to Sand Hills (from Minnesota via S. Dakota), but I don't remember the land looking quite this spectacular. What I do know, however, is that there is a nearly endless number of great sites -- like Sand Hills and Sutton Bay -- in the middle of the country where nobody lives.

Regarding the "Pit" bunker -- wouldn't it be interesting to leave it largely the way it is, rather than being "made into" a bunker?

[Tuco Ramirez]

Wow Tommy Nacarrato.  Will you join El Guapo and I drinking some Gin and Juice while smoking the peace pipe in lieu of our former Native American friends there?  L A I D B A C K

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tuco,
Good to see you back. Yes, it looks as if we'll be able to partake in a brandy or two while mingling with the native women. But, LEAVE EL GUAPO AT HOME! He gets too way out of hand and out of touch. We don't need the town of Valentine being burned to the ground!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Rick, Yes, I t does look like two completely different sites. I don't think the pit will change much--other then a bit of refining for a green and tee! Knowing these guys, they'll make it look as knarly as ever.

[El Guapo]

Eye well keel use if use do leave me homes.

Tuco, lotsa villages we can rob and plunder here amigo. Viva La Raza!

[Tuco Ramirez]

Si amigo.. Si.. I think we should squat on Sand Hills and have Youngscap make us members..

[Dan Kelly]

Next time you're in Glacier National Park (you're there pretty regularly, aren't you?), drive southeast on 89 through the Blackfeet Indian Reservation of Northwestern Montana. Keep your eyes open.