[Keith Phillips]

The 8th at Bear Creek in Denver is short - 95 yards from the whites and only 118 from the back...on a 7200 yard course at 5200' elevation.  A really fun hole.

[David Ober]

The 8th at Bear Creek in Denver is short - 95 yards from the whites and only 118 from the back...on a 7200 yard course at 5200' elevation.  A really fun hole.

And the 6th at Bear Creek in California is a fun hole also. 157 from the "back" tee, but no one plays there. Usually played from 105 to 135. TINY sliver of green to the right, a full four paces deep! Try hitting and holding that from 135 when the green is U.S. Open firm. It's ... not easy .... ;-)

[V. Kmetz]

Talk away, but it drifts some from the shortest holes developed here...


Mostly those at least under a 100, from their regular tee

[V. Kmetz]

One last monogram I offer on this is about the two holes I started the thread contextualizing:#7 PB  & #13 Merion - both canonical courses, and the only two (I can find) that have offered championship holes at less than 100 yards...I have only sifted through incomplete records, but so far, the lowest stroke avg I find for #7 PB (when played under 100 yards) is 3.04Meanwhile, the US Open contestants did #13 (in 2013) in 2.82 strokes.1. Doesn't this really amplify what TD and others mentioned about the element of score danger/instant match loss needs be present for a very short hole to work?  You can go as low as 66 yards, but there has to be a crisis loaded up to match the ill-execution of such a short shot.2. Does the 2.82 number of Merion's 13th (and yes, an elite field) push you any one way or the other about such a hole on an elite, well regarded course? My one play was a standard two putt par (1998) and I saw a lot of the hole at the 2005 Am because it was close to the clubhouse and a comfortable viewing spot, but play was unremarkable.  My feeling then, and moreso, looking at this stroke average now, makes me feel, though its a fairly nice hole to play, it's got to be one of the plainest, most unremarkable holes on a well-regarded course.  Am I being too critical...lol, opinionated?

[Kevin Pallier]

7th at Barnbougle Dunes (Tom's Little Devil) is just over 115 yards

[Tom_Doak]

VK:  Yes, I think back in the day before rangefinders, the 13th was much more intimidating, between the raised lip of the bunker that hid the green and the ornamental grasses growing in the floor of the bunker.  Likewise, the hole at Pebble Beach would not be "all that" were it not in such a windy and beautiful spot . . . and note that the green on that one is significantly bigger now than when I played it as a teenager.


The 7th at Barnbougle has all the elements you describe, PLUS a very tempting bail-out to the right.  It would be fun to watch the pros compete there, except if anyone actually hit it close to the flag you'd know they pulled it.

[V. Kmetz]

Tom, I can see that (13th was a more stringent, interesting, "dangerous" hole in its design) and (perhaps you'll disagree that I overdid the implications) that it would make a good case for why you are not usually there with "renovating" when it ranges to "altering" to meet some alleged new need of "how the hole was supposed to play."... I take it you would decline to treat that hole, even if the idea was to make it as dangerous/the hole as it was, today as it presented itself in 1916.


Well, just like:
1. The removal of individual hole par
2. Some more holes in the 240 - 285 range
and now...
3. The occasional, uncommonly short, but dangerous, hole.


I hope the GCAs of today will consider such features as a refreshment of their art as they pursue their careers. I can't do very much for GCA from this chair or in my other activities, but hopefully I can plant a seed about things that might do so.

[Joe Bausch]

How long is the 2 or 20 hole at Engineers? That's a pretty short one

It's 95 yards I think, but not sure if it is in the regular rotation now or not.

I played this hole in 2017 and it was 122 yards of complete awesomeness!   

Four photos of the "2 or 20' hole (all clickable to a larger image; and if the photos aren't showing for you, upgrade your browser and change your browser!):








 

[Phil Burr]

Just fantasizing here but I sometimes try to imagine 13 at Merion in which the club purchased land some 100 yards to the east of the current tee next to SEPTA line.  It would probably add 30-50 yards to the hole, still a short iron for pros, but bring Cobb's Creek into play as a diagonal hazard.

[Joe Bausch]

Just fantasizing here but I sometimes try to imagine 13 at Merion in which the club purchased land some 100 yards to the east of the current tee next to SEPTA line.  It would probably add 30-50 yards to the hole, still a short iron for pros, but bring Cobb's Creek into play as a diagonal hazard.

The original hole was sort of like that.  The old green is basically the caddy yard now.

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