Serious Criticism: Next Up?

[Tom_Doak]

Some people are going to think it's unfair for me to analyze others' courses and not be subject to it myself, but that is certainly not my intent.


Others will accuse me of cherry-picking my best course to be analyzed, so I don't want to be the one to choose.


Still others will accuse me of seeking attention, so if you don't want to critique any of my courses, vote "None of the above".


But for those interested in critique, which course do you want to tackle?  Is Pacific Dunes overrated?  Do Rock Creek or Barnbougle benefit from being in places where they are not well analyzed?  Did you play Stone Eagle in 110 degree heat and you're still not over it? 


Voting closes tonight. Most votes wins, because that course should have the most opinions to be offered.

[Ira Fishman]

I have played only three. Streamsong Blue is my vote.


Ira

[Brock Lynch]

I have only played two; Pacific Dunes & Old Macdonald. They're both great! The only criticism I have is the closing two holes on Old Mac. The feel like a bit of a let down, but that probably is because the rest of the course is so good. Others on this site love those closing holes, so I will yield to those opinions and look at those holes again when I visit next week.

[JMEvensky]

I have played only three. Streamsong Blue is my vote.


Ira

Same as IF.

[Blake Conant]

The Loop

[Michael Whitaker]

Streamsong Blue

[Ted Sturges]

Quail Crossing

[jeffwarne]

For context,I've played
Heathland
Sebonack
Renaissance
Tara Iti
The National-Guanamatta(redo)
St. Andrews Beach
Pacific Dunes
Barnbougle Dunes
Old Mac
Streamsong Blue


Given the amount of golf I've played, proportionately, I really haven't played many modern golf courses-as they nearly always disappoint,and have far too many bells and whistles, with notable exceptions.
Maybe I've played as many by other modern architects, but I don't think I can can name, or at least remember, 10, as I can in Tom's case.And several of them were not by choice, but just at events. (fortunate to have worked in the MET Section for 28 years-so it doesn't come up much, but we did manage to hold an important event at a modern and one of the worst courses in the section for many years)
And I have worked at several moderns that I really did like the course-particularly after alterations.


Though I played Tom's work in Australia most recently, I'll vote for Pacific Dunes(to discuss)as that would be the one most have familiarity with.(I think)

[BCrosby]

Streamsong Blue nips Pac Dunes at the wire.


I love The Loop, but feel like it deserves its own separate category.

[Sean_A]

Being completely selfish, Renaissance.

Ciao

[Jason Lietaer]

I was gonna suggest Black Forest...but it appears it's closed. What a wild place. Googled it today and was sad to see that it was sold at auction a couple years ago. Still the hardest walk I've ever had on a golf course...plus I suspect only a handful on here probably had the chance to see it!


I vote for Old Mac, even though I've probably played Dismal Red the most of the main ones and feel like I remember it the detail the best.

[Kalen Braley]

I'd be inclined to vote for Pac Dunes, but we've had so many threads on it in the past, including one of my all time fav GCA threads where you tried to pick which holes had a significant amount of dirt/sand moved on them. My beef with 16 is well known here, so I don't feel a need to pound away on that one anymore... 

How about Tumble Creek?  For Washington State, I have Chambers Bay and Wine Valley both rated higher than it.

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
In my past roles running different companies we used to do 360 peer reviews and I was always adamant that for reviews of my own performance, my peers had to provide constructive criticism.  If I was doing something poorly or flat out wrong I wanted to know about it otherwise I would likely continue doing that if no one told me.  People found it hard to say bad things about their boss but this was how we built trust with each other and as a team all improved.  But we didn't do it very often in a large group setting (or in a public setting like this).  Maybe this exercise will yield the results you are seeking, I hope it does.  One thought would be to ask for private comments on the course chosen and then share the results without naming names for general discussion but it is your thread. 

[Joe Zucker]

I vote for Pacific Dunes or Streamsong Blue since I guess they would have the widest audience.


Regarding feedback, it's can be tough to give criticism.  I've found it's often easier to frame it as "What could be improved?" rather than what is not great. It's less confrontational to coach people up to better things and I think you get more honest responses with this construct. 

[Don Mahaffey]

Streamsong Blue or the Rawls. 

[Nigel Islam]

Quail Crossing

[Tim Leahy]

Stone Eagle is great, heat or not.   Would love to see a round there on TV to show it to the world.

[SL_Solow]

I will enjoy whichever is chosen.  I think a discussion of Lost Dunes would be interesting due to some of the routing issues and the interesting greens complexes

[Joe Bausch]

Beechtree.

[John Kirk]

Another vote for Streamsong Blue.

[Stewart Abramson]

I've played
Ballyneal
Beechtree
Black Forest
Common Ground
Heathland
Loop Black
Loop Red
Old Mac
Rock Creek Cattle Co
Pacific Dunes
Streamsong Blue


I'd be most interested in learning more about Ballyneal, but I think for the purposes of this site, it would make sense to discuss the one that the most posters have played, which I would guess would be Pacific Dunes or Streamsong Blue

[Ronald Montesano]

I vote for EIEIO

[Mike_Trenham]

None of the Above:


I would like to see a debate on Banff Springs Golf Club.


Just did not get what all the excitement is about and Banff is one of my favorite places on earth.  I just can’t see the need to bring my clubs again.  Full disclosure I played it in a corporate scramble event.

[Scott Weersing]

I vote for Old Mac or Common Ground.

[Dan_Callahan]

I’d second the vote for Beachtree.