[Jason Thurman]

If you missed watching Dechambeau and Westwood play the 4th hole yesterday, video of the "highlights" can be found here: https://www.golfchannel.com/news/top-slice-shank-fourth-hole-adventures-bryson-dechambeau-and-lee-westwood


And I mean, maybe it was just three bad swings from the two hottest players in the world. But it reminded me of something.


The 9th hole at Wolf Run was never very popular with stronger players, at least in my experience. I'm a hack, so I had no unique qualms with it. But I played with a scratch friend a few times, and I think the three worst shots I ever saw him hit all happened on that hole. Cold dribble-tops right into the stream in front of the tee.


I also recall a very skilled friend of his, also a scratch-or-better player, topping a ball from the same tee into the same stream.


It's not news when I hit a cold dribble-top. But those two guys were probably the two best players I ever played with at Wolf. For them, it was a funky layup tee shot to a sort of angled landing zone... more angled the further down the fairway you go... with harsh penalties for a miss. In other words, it wasn't totally dissimilar to the 4th at Sawgrass, which also requires a funky layup tee shot to a landing zone increasingly angled the further you go and harshly punishing if you miss.


And maybe it's just a coincidence... but is this a thing?


Are there certain Bermuda Triangle-esque tee shots where you feel like gremlins steal your talent and leave you regularly just topping, shanking, and otherwise chopping it up?


Are there other tee shots where you've noticed even highly-skilled players suddenly looking like 18 handicaps with much more frequency than you'd expect?


And if so, are there consistencies in the types of challenge those shots present? Is it always a high stakes shot to an increasingly angled target, for example?

[Tom_Doak]

I don't think those guys hit 4-wood or whatever it was off the tee very often anymore, and the head on those is nowhere near as forgiving to a miss as a driver head is.


In days gone by I always struggled playing from a tee that drains toward the front; I found it much easier to top a ball.  I don't know if that tee at the TPC is actually an example of that, but it could have been a contributing factor.


P.S.  I've always liked that 4th hole and thought it was the most underrated hole out there, but of course it comes so early that you never used to see it on TV.

[Matt Kardash]

The 4th is always one of the most fun holes to watch every year. It's amazing how many players miss right out of fear of being blocked out left.

[Mark Kiely]

I just read something on Golf Digest where Bryson is claiming his poor third shot (after the horrific tee shot and penalty) was due to a cracked 4 iron. Anyone buying that? He could've replaced it if it was actually broken, but he's quoted as saying, “My 4-iron cracked. I looked at the bottom of the thing. I couldn't use it all day. … It sounded really weird and just came off horrifically, and I'm like, oh, and there's a line in the bottom of the club.”

Maybe Tour trucks don't have backup 4 irons like they would a driver?

[Mark Kiely]

And to not derail the original intent of this thread, I don't find it difficult to believe this happened. I think a tricky layup can get in a player's head more than trying to bomb a driver. I know I often hit my worst shots when I have too many thoughts going on or I try to do too much with a shot. Safe to assume the same applies to pros, just far less frequently.

[JohnVDB]

I just read something on Golf Digest where Bryson is claiming his poor third shot (after the horrific tee shot and penalty) was due to a cracked 4 iron. Anyone buying that? He could've replaced it if it was actually broken, but he's quoted as saying, “My 4-iron cracked. I looked at the bottom of the thing. I couldn't use it all day. … It sounded really weird and just came off horrifically, and I'm like, oh, and there's a line in the bottom of the club.”

Maybe Tour trucks don't have backup 4 irons like they would a driver?

Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, there is only one generic equipment trailer on-site after the start of the tournament and it probably doesn’t stock club heads from the manufacturers. All the specialized ones for the manufacturers leave on Wednesday.


If he had another set with him and it broke during the round he could have replaced it as the tour uses the Local Rule allowing replacement when the club is unfit for play and the damage wasn’t due to abuse.

[Matthew Rose]

Layups are some of the hardest shots for me to hit, personally.

Driver is one of the 2-3 clubs in my bag I have the most confidence hitting. I wonder if perhaps there is a psychology with the bomb and gouge crowd that suggests trying to back off and show finesse instead of brute strength may cause a slight mental disconnect.

[Philippe Binette]

It's a hard tee shot because for the tour pros..


They should hit that fairway...
Because of the water in front of the green, they have to hit that fairway...


So, there's nothing good that can happen off the tee...
You hit the fairway... well it was your job...
You miss the fairway... it's a mistake.
It's a hard hole to stay agressive on


It's a slightly elevated tee.. which for some reasons often leads player to pull the ball (Johnny Miller always talked about that on elevated tees).


The chute of trees off the tee forces players to hit a fade...


So unless it's your natural shot shape... you need to hit a 230-240 yards fading lay-up while staying agressive on your swing...


Pete Dye is playing with your psyche right there !!!

[Philippe Binette]

and the fairway is 22 yards wide !!

[Tom_Doak]

and the fairway is 22 yards wide !!

It was quite a bit wider than that to begin with!

[Joe Zucker]

I wonder if part of the issue at Sawgrass and WR (and any other holes that have awkward layups) is that the line of play in the fairway is diagonal to a tee box that is fairly tight.  When this happens to me, it throws off my alignment and I can hit some really bad shots (mostly shanks).  If my alignment is comfortable, then the shots are really never that bad.  Another example of this is hitting balls to a diagonal target off of a square mat at the driving range.


It could be possible that the alignment is very uncomfortable and that creates the really bad outcomes.

[Phil Burr]

Never trusted my driver but was always comfortable with a cut 3-wood, no tee, 230-240 yards.  Would that work at #4?  Not from the pro tees, obviously, but perhaps from a shorter handicap-appropriate (i.e. 4-8) starting place?

[Kalen Braley]

I fired up Google Earth to take some measurements, i'll put a screen shot later.

But even a 240 yard tee ball from the rear tee, only leaves 145 to the middle of the green.  This seems like a very reasonable ask for a good player, much less the best players in the world.

[Matt Kardash]

I fired up Google Earth to take some measurements, i'll put a screen shot later.

But even a 240 yard tee ball from the rear tee, only leaves 145 to the middle of the green.  This seems like a very reasonable ask for a good player, much less the best players in the world.

The best players believe it is always best to hit it as far as you can down the fairway. I think the ShotLink data has generally confirmed that you are better off being in the rough and closer to the hole than way back in the fairway. Obviously, this hole is an exception to the rule, but I guess tour pros are so used to playing with their foot on the gas these days.

[Kalen Braley]

It was the 4th hardest hole in relation to par this year.  So, it was certainly no pushover.

https://www.espn.com/golf/stats/hole

Here is a screen shot with some measurements.
- Orange Line = 250 yards
- Blue Line = 135 yards
- Red Line (The effective safe area) = 60 yards wide

With as much information as the top pros have access to and allegedly analyze, this seems pretty straightforward in terms of developing a seemingly safe play.  For most that's what, 3 or 4 hybrid with a wedge approach?

[Matt Kardash]

I would say from the coverage I saw most were a good 20 yards closer than your blue line. At around 115 yards.

[Jason Thurman]

P.S.  I've always liked that 4th hole and thought it was the most underrated hole out there, but of course it comes so early that you never used to see it on TV.

As a kid who played a lot of EA Sports PGA Tour Golf on Super Nintendo (and later, a lot of Tiger Woods 2004 on PS2), I found Sawgrass captivating even in 16-bit. Sorta makes sense that it worked so well in a 2D game given that it's a course more reliant on angles than elevation change... although the fierce slope of the 4th green was still baked into the game.  I've never played Sawgrass except on video games, but I've played it far more in that format than any other course and for whatever it's worth, the standout holes for me were always 4, 9, 11, old 12, and 16-17... really not so much 18 though.




While I resent Joe Zucker for being able to accurately make statements like "If my alignment is comfortable, then the shots are really never that bad," it does make me feel a little better to know that he's capable of hitting a squirrely shot every now and then. And I think he's probably onto something with the angles in play. Looking at (what's left of) Wolf Run's 9th on Google Maps, it's remarkably similar to what Kalen outlines on the 4th at Sawgrass, other than turning to the left rather than to the right. But both holes mostly start straightish, then turn pretty hard right around the 250 mark from the back tees. And crucially, you're screwed if you miss either left or right on both.


I also like the idea of forward-draining tee boxes making a topped shot more likely. I can think of a couple holes at my home course I now want to bring a level to check next time I play. Of course, the more I think about it, the more topped shots I remember... I wonder if all of our tee boxes slope forward?

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()