If a pro used a featherie, could be still beat you ?

[Neil Regan]

If a pro used a featherie ball, but nothing else changed, what would he shoot ?
Could he break 70?
80?
(From 7,000 yards +)
Would modern clubs knock the stuffing out ?
Could he make long putts ?
Medium length putts ?


I’m guessing the answers will lead to the conclusion that
modern scores are a result of both
modern distances, and of
modern agronomy.


But it also might be an interesting way to handicap a match:
not with strokes, rather with ball types.

[David Ober]

If a pro used a featherie ball, but nothing else changed, what would he shoot ?
Could he break 70?
80?
(From 7,000 yards +)
Would modern clubs knock the stuffing out ?
Could he make long putts ?
Medium length putts ?


I’m guessing the answers will lead to the conclusion that
modern scores are a result of both
modern distances, and of
modern agronomy.


But it also might be an interesting way to handicap a match:
not with strokes, rather with ball types.

I don't know enough about the featherie ball to be able to answer this question.


What percent reduction in ball flight are we talking about here?

[JESII]

95% reduction...give or take

[JMEvensky]

95% reduction...give or take

And then you've got to add in the cost of bringing a featherie maker back from the dead. Those voodoo priests ain't cheap.

[Ben Hollerbach]

A gutty maxes out around 230 yards regardless of your swing speed. I’d imagine the feathery would be no longer than that and would also be super spin limited.

[Garland Bayley]

...What percent reduction in ball flight are we talking about here?

With the feathery, the first at TOC was a three shot hole.

[Mike Sweeney]

1) Good video on 20 years 0f Pro 90 to Prov1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6B6U0DflaY


Summary: 12 yards over 20 years = .6 yards per year - Golf ball only... Now if you add in 1) fitness 2) agronomy 3) club technology 4) swing technology, it adds up...


2) Here the same guy does a 100 year old Spaulding - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShOM9SHuSYI

[Tom_Doak]

For a tv event in 1980, Laurie Auchterlonie brought out a featherie and some old long clubs, and had Jack Nicklaus and Ben Crenshaw and others try to hit them.  Nicklaus caught the ball with the edge of the club and tore it open. 


I think if you used modern clubs the ball would either fall apart or go no more than 200 yards.  I don't think anyone could break 80 with it on a modern length course.  They might not break 90.

[Brian_Ewen]

In 2003, I stood behind the 6th tee at Carnoustie, and watched while Pros. were unable to hit a Persimmon Driver and a 1.62 ball, so ...

[Thomas Dai]

Have a look at - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aW-c36K_8RQ


and
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xG0s7d6K-l0

Do some web searching and there are more.
Seems like they don’t go too far and aren’t very durable either. Now where’s Bryson!
Atb

[Matthew Mollica]

Zac Blair came to Melbourne back in 2017 and visited RM. He played West in the morning and scored well. Played his first ever hickory round in the afternoon, around the East course (which he’d not seen before), and using an old Titleist Pro Traj ball, bogeyed the last but still broke par. Not sure what he’s do with a featherie but I’m sure it would be impressive.

[Adrian_Stiff]

A Featherie goes about 180 -200 yards, so most par 4 holes become three shotters.


If you have grooves on irons it would destroy the ball.


Putting is more a lottery too, they are not quite round.


I would say a 79 with a Featherie is like a modern 59 today.


So no I could beat a pro! Some pro's are quite useless with hickories too, some are still very good but it is probably 6-9 shots more difficult per round.

[Adam Lawrence]

I just did a bit of very down and dirty research on the scores that were made with feathery balls. It seems that, up to 1849 (ie in years when every golfer was certain to be using the feathery) that the lowest score in the R&A's King William IV medal was 101.


Now obviously this proves nothing. But if the best golfers of the leading club in golf could not break 100 with the feathery ball, I suspect that today's pros would not be that much lower.


I've said this before, but the invention of the gutty was possibly the most important development in the history of golf. Before the gutty, golf was a curiosity, a game played in a small number of towns in the east of Scotland. The gutty made golf cheaper and way, way more attractive, and prompted the first golf boom. Without it we would not have the global game we see today.

[Niall C]

From Golf: Badminton Library 1890 edition

Speaking of the featherie era "In these days men were undeniably good golfers.........But we do know that (considering the course as it was then) a round of St Andrews Links on medal day, at 94, is excellent. The green was then very narrow, and much beset with heather and whin. Today the course is perhaps a dozen strokes easier than it was only 40 years ago, from the decay of Hell and other bunkers, and from the disappearance of whins. But James Durham of Largo won the silver club at 94, on September 3, 1796. This also proves the excellence of the feather balls while they lasted. About 100 to 105 was then an average score."

Niall

[Niall C]

I've said this before, but the invention of the gutty was possibly the most important development in the history of golf. Before the gutty, golf was a curiosity, a game played in a small number of towns in the east of Scotland. The gutty made golf cheaper and way, way more attractive, and prompted the first golf boom. Without it we would not have the global game we see today.

Adam,

The gutty dates from 1848 while the first real golf boom as you put it was the 1880's and 1890's so clearly the gutty didn't kick start that or the boom would have happened earlier. The boom of the 1880's and 1890's happened for a lot of reasons that were mainly social-economic related. I tend to think if the gutty hadn't have been around then it would either have been invented or a way would have been found to make the feathery more durable and be made in a mass produced fashion.

Also the assertion that many historians make that golf was only played in a few towns on the east coast simply isn't in line with the evidence.

Niall

[David Ober]

A Featherie goes about 180 -200 yards, so most par 4 holes become three shotters.


If you have grooves on irons it would destroy the ball.


Putting is more a lottery too, they are not quite round.


I would say a 79 with a Featherie is like a modern 59 today.


So no I could beat a pro! Some pro's are quite useless with hickories too, some are still very good but it is probably 6-9 shots more difficult per round.

Then the answer for me is YES! ... I'm healthy ... which I'm not. So ... No. :-(

[John Kavanaugh]

I recently played the tips at my Florida club for the first time because I was paired with Paul Broadhurst. Shot 76 and was only beaten by 13 strokes. He could easily beat me anywhere anytime with a ball that travels 200 yds and lands like a feather. He is 55.

[Garland Bayley]

From Golf: Badminton Library 1890 edition

Speaking of the featherie era "In these days men were undeniably good golfers.........But we do know that (considering the course as it was then) a round of St Andrews Links on medal day, at 94, is excellent. The green was then very narrow, and much beset with heather and whin. Today the course is perhaps a dozen strokes easier than it was only 40 years ago, from the decay of Hell and other bunkers, and from the disappearance of whins. But James Durham of Largo won the silver club at 94, on September 3, 1796. This also proves the excellence of the feather balls while they lasted. About 100 to 105 was then an average score."

Niall

So much for that d***ed John Low, and his 1, 2, and 3 shot hole pronouncements.

[Bruce Katona]

I'll take 76 from the tips any and every day JK.


Did you get 7 a side in the Nassau?

[John Kavanaugh]

He played as a zero and I was a 3. I lost all three sides for what I considered a $15 appearance fee.


edit: I forgot that I'm a 6 from the tips. It didn't matter.

[Mike Hendren]

They could play a Rubik’s Cube and spank me.

[John Kavanaugh]

It would be like trying to beat LeBron is he used a bowling ball. No contest.

[Peter Pallotta]

That seems like undue modesty, John.
If you can shoot 76 from the tips, it means you're a fine golfer who is hitting a lot of fairways and greens, and making some putts, and driving the ball a good distance off the tee. For Paul Broadhurst to come in 13 shots lower, it means he was better at all facets of the game; but I'm guessing that a significant part of his advantage lay in how far he drove the ball -- which in turn led to shorter irons coming in, and many more make-able putts etc.
If he could only drive it -- with a featherie -- a couple of hundred yards, almost all that advantage is gone. No?

[John Kavanaugh]

No. I had never heard of him before the round. He is 6 years younger than me, played in the 91 Ryder Cup and just came off a tour event. With these guys it's like street magic with David Blaine except it's the ball disappearing in the hole. You watch it and don't concern yourself why it happened.


The only reason I played as well as I did because by the time I was putting for par I had already lost the hole. As to your point Paul is an unusually short hitting professional.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broadhurst


When he said on the first tee he would play as a zero I called him on it saying that scratch golfers aren't worth a shit. He asked me if I had ever been scratch and lucky for me I happened to be a zero from the senior tees. I went on to prove my point.


I wish the tour would change their slogan from "These guys are good" to "These guys are better than you" or even better "You suck".


btw. I'm not being modest, this is pure humble bragging.

[Mike Hendren]

A couple of anecdotes:


I attended my first PGA tour event in 1970 - the Danny Thomas Memphis Classic.  Dad took me down to the range to watch.  I vividly recall a caddy emptying the shag bag that most professionals used at that time and pacing off 100 yards or so down the range carrying something brown along with the shag bag.  Turned out it was a first baseman's mitt that he used to catch the player's wedge shots, rarely moving more than a pace of two.  I don't recall the player's name - he was a journeyman. 


A year or so later Dad took me to Memphis to Bert Dargie's legendary golf shop to purchase a set of irons.  After agonizing over which set to buy - I settled on the beautiful Haig Ultra's, the impatient professional basically told me:  "look, if you're any good you can play with a broomstick." 


I remain surprised by the extent to which many underestimate the ability of today's professional golfer.