Closing holes at the Bandon courses

[Ronald Montesano]

Has this been discussed, now that there are five of them? If not, let's have at it.


The 18th at PD is super tough, I mean, nightmare tough, with lots of wow factor. You just cannot miss a shot.


The 18th holes at the other four courses are good holes, and get you back to the clubhouse, which is always appreciated.


Are any of the five missed opportunities? Are any/all of the five better than I remember them?


Take your shot and defend one/more to the death. I can't wait to read your thoughts.

[Brock Lynch]

Pac Dunes has the best finishing hole by far! Tee shot is intimidating to say the least and after a good drive, the 2nd shot has to be well placed. The green site is also the best of the bunch. Not a fan of the green at 18 on Old Mac. While the greens at Old Mac can be a bit wild, the final green doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the course. IMO, the final two holes are a letdown at Old Mac. Maybe 14 thru 16 are just too good. Bandon Trails has a solid finishing hole. Semi blind tee shot, and an uphill approach make it challenging. Bandon Dunes' final hole is a birdie chance as long as your not into the wind. The features there are not super exciting, given that you've just played 15 thru 17. I have not played Sheep Ranch, but will at the end of the month.

[Ira Fishman]

I liked Old Mac 18. The hole and the green pairs well with Number 1 which is a fitting way to finish the course.


Ira

[Peter Flory]

Old Mac for me.  That approach shot is one of my favorites at the resort overall. 

[JLahrman]

Not a fan of the green at 18 on Old Mac. While the greens at Old Mac can be a bit wild, the final green doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the course.

It's not wild enough, or it's too wild, compared to the rest of the greens?

[Alex Miller]

I think Sheep Ranch's 18th is really really good, as long as you forget about par. SR and Bandon have the two finishers that feel most like finishers. Old Mac's is definitely a great hole too, but perhaps the low profile clubhouse and nature of the land make it feel different than the others.

[Tom_Doak]

It's funny that on none of the courses is the 18th hole one of the best or most talked-about holes on the course.


That is the result of
(a)  Keeping the clubhouses away from the coast, and
(b)  Not worrying that the 18th would be the finishing hole of some tournament


Also, probably (c) none of the designers involved stress the importance of the 18th hole over any of the others.


I do like the 18th at Old Mac, though, I think that green complex is very interesting.  I am looking at doing a project on a barren site and was thinking that might be a good hole to co-opt.

[Ronald Montesano]

We talk about a gentle opening handshake; should there be a gentle shoulder clap at the end? If so, then I think that the 18th on three of the five is just that: gentle. I think that 18 at Pac Dunes is appropriately difficult. I believe that the 18th at Trails is also demanding. They are two tough and fun courses. I like that PD finishes 4-3-5 and BT finishes 5-3-4...Neat contrast

[Sven Nilsen]

My personal rankings 1-5 (all yardages from the Green Tees where 96% of folks play).


1.  Old MacDonald (426 yds) - Those that get it love it.  Most players make the mistakes of being too far right off the tee or playing too much club and ending up in the left bunkers.  After 17 holes at Old Mac, you should have learned that the play on the approach isn't always to fire at the pin.  Always fun to judge the approach yardage and line based on where the pin is located.  My only quibble with the hole is that the setup crew is tied to a standard three pin location rotation.


2.  Pacific Dunes (575 yds) - Long hitters often have to lay up on the drive.  For the rest of us, ending up short of the left bunker is a great spot with generally a flat lie to play the next one down the line of the fairway.  The approach area has become too soft to consistently play a ball short and have it release on.  This can be a bear in the winter when the south wind is up.


3.  Bandon Trails (363 yds) - As the fairway pinches in the landing zone, sometimes the best play is to try to find the flat plateau before the valley.  In the summer, the lower trajectory shot from 130 to 150 yds is often a better option than trying to flight a shorter shot into the summer breeze, as the wind here seems to try to make even the best struck short iron climb the ladder.  Can be drivable in the winter.


4.  Bandon Dunes (513 yds) - Reachable in two at times with a SW wind, but a beast in the summer.  The ravine running along the right side is a severe hazard with the left to right wind that wants to grab anything with a little slice spin.  Always seems to play longer on the approach then people give it credit for.  The resort pretty much only uses the left half of the green, which is a shame as there are some really cool pin locations on the right half.


5.  Sheep Ranch (435 yds) - What can you say about a par 5 where players routinely have less than 130 yards left after their drive? What looks like a punchbowl green doesn't really play like one.  11 would be the better closing hole for a round, but that wouldn't allow for the clifftop closing stretch of 15/16/17. 

[David Ober]

We talk about a gentle opening handshake; should there be a gentle shoulder clap at the end? If so, then I think that the 18th on three of the five is just that: gentle. I think that 18 at Pac Dunes is appropriately difficult. I believe that the 18th at Trails is also demanding. They are two tough and fun courses. I like that PD finishes 4-3-5 and BT finishes 5-3-4...Neat contrast

I like this concept. I've always hated courses with a very, very tough 18th hole. Beat me up from 14 to 17, but let me at least feel decent about my round on 18!

[Garland Bayley]

My personal rankings 1-5 (all yardages from the Green Tees where 96% of folks play).


1.  Old MacDonald (426 yds) - Those that get it love it.  Most players make the mistakes of being too far right off the tee or playing too much club and ending up in the left bunkers.  After 17 holes at Old Mac, you should have learned that the play on the approach isn't always to fire at the pin.  Always fun to judge the approach yardage and line based on where the pin is located.  My only quibble with the hole is that the setup crew is tied to a standard three pin location rotation.


2.  Pacific Dunes (575 yds) - Long hitters often have to lay up on the drive.  For the rest of us, ending up short of the left bunker is a great spot with generally a flat lie to play the next one down the line of the fairway.  The approach area has become too soft to consistently play a ball short and have it release on.  This can be a bear in the winter when the south wind is up.


3.  Bandon Trails (363 yds) - As the fairway pinches in the landing zone, sometimes the best play is to try to find the flat plateau before the valley.  In the summer, the lower trajectory shot from 130 to 150 yds is often a better option than trying to flight a shorter shot into the summer breeze, as the wind here seems to try to make even the best struck short iron climb the ladder.  Can be drivable in the winter.


4.  Bandon Dunes (513 yds) - Reachable in two at times with a SW wind, but a beast in the summer.  The ravine running along the right side is a severe hazard with the left to right wind that wants to grab anything with a little slice spin.  Always seems to play longer on the approach then people give it credit for.  The resort pretty much only uses the left half of the green, which is a shame as there are some really cool pin locations on the right half.


5.  Sheep Ranch (435 yds) - What can you say about a par 5 where players routinely have less than 130 yards left after their drive? What looks like a punchbowl green doesn't really play like one.  11 would be the better closing hole for a round, but that wouldn't allow for the clifftop closing stretch of 15/16/17.

Sven nailed it again!

[James Brown]

Love this topic. 


I have only been to Bandon during the summer.  Played all the courses about 6-7 times.  Sheep ranch twice. 



For me, Bandon Dunes is my favorite closing hole.  It follows so nicely from 16 and 17.  A chance at birdie to close but also a chance to blow your round if you flare it right.  It’s also very cool to finish right under the club house. 


My beef with 18 at Pacific Dunes is the green.  I just can’t figure out how to get the ball anywhere near the hole from any distance because of the counter slope.  This green usually leaves me at least a little mad.  I bet if I played there a whole bunch I would get it. 


Old Mac’s closer is fun if you hit the fairway, but there are lots of bad places to miss it that leave you laying up and that is no fun.  I hit it close once from like 200 yards and it was super memorable.


Trails is all about the wind.  Into a gale, this hole is a real beat down, since Trails is a tough test already.  In mild wind, it is a real nice finisher.


Sheep Ranch is a fun second shot with a hybrid and very Coore-Crenshaw easy fun.  Very much like [size=78%]18 at Streamsong Red.  [/size]

[Garland Bayley]

...
My beef with 18 at Pacific Dunes is the green.  I just can’t figure out how to get the ball anywhere near the hole from any distance because of the counter slope.  This green usually leaves me at least a little mad.  I bet if I played there a whole bunch I would get it. 
...

Play match play, and forget about the score.

[Brock Lynch]

Old MacDonald (426 yds) - Those that get it love it. 

Sven,


I yield to your experience here. So, help me "get it". The mounds front and right seem contrived and I don't know if they were needed. If the grass on those mounds is kept short, the hole plays better. So, bouncing your approach into the green has to come into the left side? Half of those approaches are going to stay up on the left. Also, if there is a top left pin don't you have to take it directly at the pin to get it close or is that not an option? How do you get near a front pin that sits behind the mound front and center? I think the pin has been there 3 of the 4 times I've played it and those mounds keep you from easing the ball onto the green. I've failed in three ways; kept my approach left and got stuck on top left, finished just short of the green left of the mound leaving a near impossible putt, and played right finishing on the back with a very long putt. Maybe that pin placement has swayed my opinion of the hole, but I would like to read further analysis from you on this hole. Thanks in advance.

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,

I yield to your experience here. So, help me "get it". The mounds front and right seem contrived and I don't know if they were needed. If the grass on those mounds is kept short, the hole plays better.

SN - The mounds are meant to be obstacles you either play around or over. 

So, bouncing your approach into the green has to come into the left side?

SN - Small correction, the approach should come into the left side from the left side of the fairway.  Then the angles and slopes work.  Sometimes, but rarely, the bouncing approach can be played between the mounds.

Half of those approaches are going to stay up on the left.

SN - I see very few balls stay on the left side.  But then again, I don't tell my players to hit it left of the mounds if they are on the right side of the fairway. 

Also, if there is a top left pin don't you have to take it directly at the pin to get it close or is that not an option?

SN - I have only ever seen one top left pin in all my rounds out there.  They don't pin that side.

How do you get near a front pin that sits behind the mound front and center?

SN - Two ways, either play something that rolls onto the green just left on the center mound (if the angles work) or use the backstop long left of that pin.

I think the pin has been there 3 of the 4 times I've played it and those mounds keep you from easing the ball onto the green. I've failed in three ways; kept my approach left and got stuck on top left, finished just short of the green left of the mound leaving a near impossible putt, and played right finishing on the back with a very long putt. Maybe that pin placement has swayed my opinion of the hole, but I would like to read further analysis from you on this hole. Thanks in advance.

SN - That is one of the three main pin positions they use, the other two being back right and front right.  Of the three, I think front right is the hardest to get close to. 

For a back right pin, the play should be to try to use the back stop aiming a bit left of the flag (how far left depends on the angle.  One of the coolest shots out there is a ball that runs along the back edge of the green feeding to this pin.

For front right pins, distance judgment is at a premium as you really don't have a backstop to bail you out (although you can use the right side mound to keep it kind of close).  The further right you are, the tougher the shot as the down slope off the front bump in front of the flag does its best to propel balls to the back of the green.  From there the downhill put is pretty devilish.  Its probably an easier pin in the winter when the prevailing wind might help to hold a shot.

I like to think of this hole in the way CBM discussed having to play a multitude of different shots throughout a round.  A running approach (as opposed to trying to fly it and stop) generally works better here, assuming you've set up the right angle in.  Success here often depends on being able to judge how far your ball is going to roll after it hits the ground, much like CBM's thoughts on how his Biarritz holes should be played.

There are a bunch of holes out here where the visual lures players into firing at the pin off of the tee.  For whatever reason, it doesn't matter how much you say stay left, players are going to subconsciously set up to the right bringing the right side fairway bunkers into play.  From there its pretty much a guaranteed bogey. 

For many players in the summer the two left bunkers can be in play off the tee.  It can be hard to convince someone to hit 3-wood or hybrid off the tee on a 425 yard hole, but that is often the play if you want to leave it short of those bunkers (where you have the best angle in).  Even being in those bunkers or being in the left rough is better than anything right.  For the big hitters, driver into the end of the fairway can be the play leaving a short pitch.

If you are familiar with John Kirk's theory on the most exciting part of golf being what happens after the ball hits the ground, this hole can deliver all the thrills you need.  It is not an easy hole, despite having a massively wide fairway and a punchbowl green.  But when you pull off two shots (and you need both to be executed well), there are not many other holes out here that can deliver as much satisfaction.

Hope that helps,

Sven

[Steve Lang]

   Put me down for Trails, overall challenge, with Old Mac a close 2nd for its fun green.


My usual first take away judgement on courses is whether I want to go right back out for another 18 or go back and replay any holes to take care of unfinished business...   the Bandon closers don't alter my opinion... given the chance, full replays for all!

[Brock Lynch]

Sven,


Very helpful. We will be there in about 10 days and I will try to follow your advise. Thanks