OT - The Rich vs. The Very Rich

[David_Tepper]

The Wentworth Rebellion:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/mar/02/wentworth-golf-club-reignwood-yan-bin?utm_source=pocket-newtab

[Mike Sweeney]

David,


I am thinking this guy has multiple nuclear weapons pointed at him from multiple countries on a daily basis, so I think I will skip the Overseas Membership at Wentworth!!

[Steve Lang]

David,  that is the most interesting story I've read in a while, thanks for sharing.  Wentworth and Red Bull have always just been names to me... amazing how intertwined they now are.


Mike, You may want to reconsider, if the nukes ever fly, ground zero may be the best place to be!

[John Emerson]

I now loathe that guy after reading that. 

[Jeff Schley]

Wow, lengthy article and glad I read it all. Shows how a diamond can be cut up and tarnished by the owner. I have a charity round at Wentworth from 2 years ago actually that I still need to play. While I was excited to go play with a couple friends, this makes me less enthused as to the sad demise of the membership.

[Niall C]

"A round of golf requires such a luxurious surplus of space and time that it can never have been called an ordinary person’s game. And by the 80s, golf clubs had long gained their reputation as being sanctuaries for the corporate wealthy – as places where these executives not only spent their money but colluded to make more of it."

Old story being pushed by the Guardian with their usual anti-golf agenda as evidenced by the above quote from the story. Their idea of golf bears as much relation to the vast majority of golf clubs in this country as my golf games does to that of Rory McIlroy's. Total and utter pish.

Niall

[John Emerson]

"A round of golf requires such a luxurious surplus of space and time that it can never have been called an ordinary person’s game. And by the 80s, golf clubs had long gained their reputation as being sanctuaries for the corporate wealthy – as places where these executives not only spent their money but colluded to make more of it."

Old story being pushed by the Guardian with their usual anti-golf agenda as evidenced by the above quote from the story. Their idea of golf bears as much relation to the vast majority of golf clubs in this country as my golf games does to that of Rory McIlroy's. Total and utter pish.

Niall

Honestly the quote IMO isn’t too far off.  Where there’s smoke there’s fire.  Golf is seen, and for the most part is, a game for the “better off”.  To say it’s a game for the common folk as it stands in the US today is wrong.


But I wish it to be for everyone...in reality it’s not

[jeffwarne]

"A round of golf requires such a luxurious surplus of space and time that it can never have been called an ordinary person’s game. And by the 80s, golf clubs had long gained their reputation as being sanctuaries for the corporate wealthy – as places where these executives not only spent their money but colluded to make more of it."

Old story being pushed by the Guardian with their usual anti-golf agenda as evidenced by the above quote from the story. Their idea of golf bears as much relation to the vast majority of golf clubs in this country as my golf games does to that of Rory McIlroy's. Total and utter pish.

Niall

Honestly the quote IMO isn’t too far off.  Where there’s smoke there’s fire.  Golf is seen, and for the most part is, a game for the “better off”.  To say it’s a game for the common folk as it stands in the US today is wrong.


But I wish it to be for everyone...in reality it’s not

I know of a pretty good golf course in the Aiken/Augusta area that offered 3 year memberships for $200.
nearby Aiken Golf Club is $25-$30,and the Augusta Municipal GC is $18 for 18 holes.
I often play a 9 holer in affluent Shelter Island for $15 for 18 holes and in Sag Harbor I think it's $18 for all day play(may have gone up a bit)
I've played plenty of courses for about that price(so low I rarely ever bother to pull out the PGA card)
I paid $14 to play 18 at Soule Park 2 winters ago-on a Sunday.
Palatka GC is $28(just checked-after 12-$34 before)-and it's prime season in Florida(and I can assure you I enjoyed it more than most any other course I've played in Florida)
So many examples out there.
Not sure what the "common man" is looking for, but I can assure you he's not going out to dinner or a ballgame for anywhere near those prices.

[John Emerson]

"A round of golf requires such a luxurious surplus of space and time that it can never have been called an ordinary person’s game. And by the 80s, golf clubs had long gained their reputation as being sanctuaries for the corporate wealthy – as places where these executives not only spent their money but colluded to make more of it."

Old story being pushed by the Guardian with their usual anti-golf agenda as evidenced by the above quote from the story. Their idea of golf bears as much relation to the vast majority of golf clubs in this country as my golf games does to that of Rory McIlroy's. Total and utter pish.

Niall

Honestly the quote IMO isn’t too far off.  Where there’s smoke there’s fire.  Golf is seen, and for the most part is, a game for the “better off”.  To say it’s a game for the common folk as it stands in the US today is wrong.


But I wish it to be for everyone...in reality it’s not

I know of a pretty good golf course in the Aiken/Augusta area that offered 3 year memberships for $200.
nearby Aiken Golf Club is $25-$30,and the Augusta Municipal GC is $18 for 18 holes.
I often play a 9 holer in affluent Shelter Island for $15 for 18 holes and in Sag Harbor I think it's $18 for all day play(may have gone up a bit)
I've played plenty of courses for about that price(so low I rarely ever bother to pull out the PGA card)
I paid $14 to play 18 at Soule Park 2 winters ago-on a Sunday.
Palatka GC is $28(just checked-after 12-$34 before)-and it's prime season in Florida(and I can assure you I enjoyed it more than most any other course I've played in Florida)
So many examples out there.
Not sure what the "common man" is looking for, but I can assure you he's not going out to dinner or a ballgame for anywhere near those prices.

The economics of USA say that it is a problem for most people.  It is not accessible the same way basketball or soccer is.  $15 sounds like a drop in the bucket, but I can assure you that goes a long way for a big chunk of Americans.  Especially, if the cost to play a round of golf is 1.5 times minimum wage.  There are MAJOR hurdles to entry for the game of golf.  While it’s roots are of common man, it’s flowers sure are not.

[Charles Lund]

Sad to see this happen in England, with many clubs with long histories.  Also sad for the members who were affected by the new ownership of what appears to be something other than a golf club going forward.  In the absence of a set of club values and traditions, it is unclear what a golf club membership might offer.



There are obviously other options for those displaced by the new owner.


Charles Lund

[Niall C]

"A round of golf requires such a luxurious surplus of space and time that it can never have been called an ordinary person’s game. And by the 80s, golf clubs had long gained their reputation as being sanctuaries for the corporate wealthy – as places where these executives not only spent their money but colluded to make more of it."

Old story being pushed by the Guardian with their usual anti-golf agenda as evidenced by the above quote from the story. Their idea of golf bears as much relation to the vast majority of golf clubs in this country as my golf games does to that of Rory McIlroy's. Total and utter pish.

Niall

Honestly the quote IMO isn’t too far off.  Where there’s smoke there’s fire.  Golf is seen, and for the most part is, a game for the “better off”.  To say it’s a game for the common folk as it stands in the US today is wrong.


But I wish it to be for everyone...in reality it’s not

John


Wentworth is in England; the Guardian is a UK newspaper and when I referred to this country I was referring to the UK where I live. So looking at the quote in context it is miles off. The Wentworth pre-change is very unusual in this country and not just because of the level of cost but also because it is/was not a members owned club.


Drive into the car park of the vast majority of clubs in this country and you will see a wide range of cars from the older cheaper models to the latest German performance vehicles with a few tradesman vans thrown in.


Niall

[Dub_ONeill]

Glad to see a native had the same reaction to this language as I did as a Yank who has played a fair bit in the UK.  At a great many of the UK clubs I have played our caddies have been club members who were neither rich nor very rich.  I am guessing the members weren't caddying at Wentworth pre or post Red Bull.

[Tom_Doak]

I am a big fan of access to great courses, but at the same time, to hear the old Wentworth being described as a melting pot is a look through rose-colored glasses.  Indeed the whole reason for this story [and The Guardian's glee in reporting it] is that the very guys who used to restrict access for themselves have had the tables turned on them by a new level of money and snobbery.


It would be great if golf could avoid such nonsense, but it is a relatively expensive game to play, especially as some of these courses are now being maintained.  Does anyone here want to speculate on what a $15m restoration will do to the price of guest fees at Merion or Oakland Hills?

[Kalen Braley]

"A round of golf requires such a luxurious surplus of space and time that it can never have been called an ordinary person’s game. And by the 80s, golf clubs had long gained their reputation as being sanctuaries for the corporate wealthy – as places where these executives not only spent their money but colluded to make more of it."

Old story being pushed by the Guardian with their usual anti-golf agenda as evidenced by the above quote from the story. Their idea of golf bears as much relation to the vast majority of golf clubs in this country as my golf games does to that of Rory McIlroy's. Total and utter pish.

Niall

Honestly the quote IMO isn’t too far off.  Where there’s smoke there’s fire.  Golf is seen, and for the most part is, a game for the “better off”.  To say it’s a game for the common folk as it stands in the US today is wrong.


But I wish it to be for everyone...in reality it’s not

I know of a pretty good golf course in the Aiken/Augusta area that offered 3 year memberships for $200.
nearby Aiken Golf Club is $25-$30,and the Augusta Municipal GC is $18 for 18 holes.
I often play a 9 holer in affluent Shelter Island for $15 for 18 holes and in Sag Harbor I think it's $18 for all day play(may have gone up a bit)
I've played plenty of courses for about that price(so low I rarely ever bother to pull out the PGA card)
I paid $14 to play 18 at Soule Park 2 winters ago-on a Sunday.
Palatka GC is $28(just checked-after 12-$34 before)-and it's prime season in Florida(and I can assure you I enjoyed it more than most any other course I've played in Florida)
So many examples out there.
Not sure what the "common man" is looking for, but I can assure you he's not going out to dinner or a ballgame for anywhere near those prices.

The economics of USA say that it is a problem for most people.  It is not accessible the same way basketball or soccer is.  $15 sounds like a drop in the bucket, but I can assure you that goes a long way for a big chunk of Americans.  Especially, if the cost to play a round of golf is 1.5 times minimum wage.  There are MAJOR hurdles to entry for the game of golf.  While it’s roots are of common man, it’s flowers sure are not.

John,

I'm inclined to agree with Jeff on this one.  There are plenty of affordable golf options for the common joe.  I've personally known lots of people thru the years who live paycheck to paycheck and have no trouble spending those same amounts (and more) pursing other interests, I just don't think they're interested in golf.  Whether that's based on perceptions or otherwise I couldn't say, but the issue is certainly not spending the $30 for a round of golf.

[Tom_Doak]

I know of a pretty good golf course in the Aiken/Augusta area that offered 3 year memberships for $200.
nearby Aiken Golf Club is $25-$30,and the Augusta Municipal GC is $18 for 18 holes.
I often play a 9 holer in affluent Shelter Island for $15 for 18 holes and in Sag Harbor I think it's $18 for all day play(may have gone up a bit)
I've played plenty of courses for about that price(so low I rarely ever bother to pull out the PGA card)
I paid $14 to play 18 at Soule Park 2 winters ago-on a Sunday.
Palatka GC is $28(just checked-after 12-$34 before)-and it's prime season in Florida(and I can assure you I enjoyed it more than most any other course I've played in Florida)
So many examples out there.
Not sure what the "common man" is looking for, but I can assure you he's not going out to dinner or a ballgame for anywhere near those prices.

The economics of USA say that it is a problem for most people.  It is not accessible the same way basketball or soccer is.  $15 sounds like a drop in the bucket, but I can assure you that goes a long way for a big chunk of Americans.  Especially, if the cost to play a round of golf is 1.5 times minimum wage.  There are MAJOR hurdles to entry for the game of golf.  While it’s roots are of common man, it’s flowers sure are not.

I have to say, this post made my head spin.  Yes, of course, soccer and basketball are the sports everyone can afford, because you only need a ball to play.  But to think that golf could ever be that is just ridiculous.  Golf is available at many different price points, but "free" is not one of them, because a golf course generally requires maintenance of 100+ acres and that isn't free.  Even a bucket of balls at the driving range costs $.

[jeffwarne]

I know of a pretty good golf course in the Aiken/Augusta area that offered 3 year memberships for $200.
nearby Aiken Golf Club is $25-$30,and the Augusta Municipal GC is $18 for 18 holes.
I often play a 9 holer in affluent Shelter Island for $15 for 18 holes and in Sag Harbor I think it's $18 for all day play(may have gone up a bit)
I've played plenty of courses for about that price(so low I rarely ever bother to pull out the PGA card)
I paid $14 to play 18 at Soule Park 2 winters ago-on a Sunday.
Palatka GC is $28(just checked-after 12-$34 before)-and it's prime season in Florida(and I can assure you I enjoyed it more than most any other course I've played in Florida)
So many examples out there.
Not sure what the "common man" is looking for, but I can assure you he's not going out to dinner or a ballgame for anywhere near those prices.

The economics of USA say that it is a problem for most people.  It is not accessible the same way basketball or soccer is.  $15 sounds like a drop in the bucket, but I can assure you that goes a long way for a big chunk of Americans.  Especially, if the cost to play a round of golf is 1.5 times minimum wage.  There are MAJOR hurdles to entry for the game of golf.  While it’s roots are of common man, it’s flowers sure are not.

I have to say, this post made my head spin.  Yes, of course, soccer and basketball are the sports everyone can afford, because you only need a ball to play.  But to think that golf could ever be that is just ridiculous.  Golf is available at many different price points, but "free" is not one of them, because a golf course generally requires maintenance of 100+ acres and that isn't free.  Even a bucket of balls at the driving range costs $.

Thanks.
I had typed a long reply then deleted it.
But even soccer you need a place TO play that is owned, maintained, and/or subsidized by someone.
And in the same region where I posted about affordable golf, I've seen many groups kicked off fields for no permits, and as a parent of a soccer player have paid $ more than the golf $'s posted above posted to rent fields for soccer.

[Thomas Dai]

I wonder what the business arrangements are given that Wentworth is also the HQ of the European Tour? No insinuations, just curious.
Atb