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DonJ

Classic Courses and Railroads
« on: November 11, 2003, 01:34:11 PM »
I am in the middle of reading Scotland’s Gift and CBM talks about taking the railroad to a course.

How many of the great classic courses were/are near  railroad stops?  How much did the railroad impact where courses were being built?

The few that I can think of that are near RR stops:  

Shinny
Bethpage
Olympia Fields
Oakmont?(Don't know if there was ever a stop there)

A_Clay_Man

Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2003, 01:42:44 PM »
Chicago is full of courses along the tracks. Of course the tracks went in every direction out of Chicago.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2003, 01:47:47 PM »
The railways built many courses in the UK, for example Turnberry, Gleneagles and Cruden Bay.  I believe that Denham Golf Club may be the only course in Britain to have a station named after it.  I have a feeling that Royal Adelaide had its own station.  There used to be the wonderful old branch line from Leuchars Junction to St Andrews which trundled down the side of the Old Course.  It is said that the drivers knew not to whistle while golfers were making the shot. Prestwick starts off immediately beside the railway station and there are tales of golfers slicing out of bounds only for the ball to rebound off the rails onto the course and, of course, of golfers slicing their shot into an open goods wagon....  The same railway also runs very close to the 11th green at Royal Troon.

There's a wonderful line which runs up the Lancashire coast right beside West Lancs and Formby and later forms the boundary between Hillside and Southport & Ainsdale.  I am old enough to remember steam trains running into Newcastle station in Northern Ireland alongside the No 2 course of Royal County Down.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2003, 01:49:08 PM »
Merion, Pine Valley, Gulph Mills, Eastmoreland in Portland. Why even Tom Fazio's Oak Creek in Irvine.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2003, 01:49:41 PM by Tommy_Naccarato »

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2003, 02:07:32 PM »
Royal Lytham & St. Anne's.

One of the London Heathland clubs is near a railroad stop.  Either Sunningdale or Swinley Forest or Walton Heath...

Ben Cowan-Dewar

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2003, 02:23:10 PM »
Woking is on the railway, Sunningdale and Swinley (Ascot) are both very close.

Bob_Huntley

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2003, 02:27:02 PM »
Mark,

What about Beaconsfield?

Bill Weber

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2003, 02:29:19 PM »
I believe Pinehurst was origanally a rail stop on the way to Florida.

Tim_Weiman

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2003, 02:46:04 PM »
Ballybunion & Lahinch
Tim Weiman

SL_Solow

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2003, 02:54:30 PM »
Glenview is located in the village of Golf.  It was originally unincorporated and players taking the train would be let out after the conductor announced the next stop as "golf".  No station or town at the time.  The town took the name from the practice.  Adam is correct about Chicago courses.  Many built around the turn of the last century were too far to get to from the city by ordinary transportation so they were built close to the tracks, e.g. Olympia Fields, Ravisloe, Lake Shore, Exmoor, or a short ride away,e.g. Idlewild, Northmoor, Bob O Linc, Skokie.  Most had some form of overnight accomodations.

Robert Thompson

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2003, 03:01:02 PM »
It is my understanding that most of the private courses in and around Toronto, like Toronto Golf Club (Colt) and Scarboro were built along railway lines (the train still flies past Scarboro.) On top of that several of Stanley Thompson's courses (like St. Thomas) had train stops nearby. I also understood that both Cherry Hill and Lookout Point, both Travis courses, were near train stops at one point, which is how Walter got to the courses (Ian Andrew would know more about this than I....)

Best.

Robert
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

peter_p

Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2003, 03:02:07 PM »
Pine Valley. Augusta. Pinehurst.
 In addition to Eastmoreland, Portland's Portland GC, Waverley and Tualatin all had their own trolley (traction company) stops. Its probably true of all most metro areas.
 In Australia, Kooyonga began when HL Rymill was forced to take an electric tram instead of the train because of a RxR strike and found sandy tracts with a for sale sign. Royal Adelaide's pro shop used to be a railroad station.
 The dustcover of Harry Foster's book "Links Along the Line"
about the development of golf between Liverpool and Southport shows the "major emphasis on the critical roles played by the landowners and the railroad company and the relationship of the promotion of golf to their commercial interests."

mike_malone

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2003, 03:04:08 PM »
 Tim Weiman
    When my wife and i stayed in a bed and breakfast owned by a wowan who was a member at Lahinch,she said the location of Doonbeg was supposed to be Lahinch but there was no rail line.
AKA Mayday

Jason Mandel

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2003, 03:23:30 PM »
Philly Cricket, the course is basically DIVIDED by the RAILROAD :)

Also, I remember reading that when Philmont was built, most people would take the train to the course, this is from Jim Finegan's book on Philadelphia golf.

At Philmont neither the location nor the name has ever changed. And as was the case at Springhaven, it was a woman who spurred this club into existence, even to the point of finding the site for it.

In the early years of the new century there was a steady migration of the center-city Jewish population to the suburbs of eastern Montgomery County. This "exodus" inclined to follow the Reading Railroad line, with most people establishing their homes within an easy walk of the train station in such communities as Oak Lane, Elkins Park, and Jenkintown, though the more adventurous even went so far into the hinterland as Rydal and Meadowbrook.

Mrs. Samuel D. Lit, whose husband owned and ran the well-known department store at 8th and Market Streets, was convinced that what the former city dwellers needed was a country club. It would serve as a gathering place for those who had automatically seen a great deal of each other when they were all living in town. Equally important, it would provide desirable recreational opportunities ("Now that we've got all this fresh air, what are we going to do with it?").

Since the next step was to find a location for the club, Mrs. Lit started looking around. It was in the late spring of 1906 that she invited Ellis Gimbel, Jack Aspen, and Harry Leopold to meet her just north of Bethayres one day at a little flag station (the train stopped only if you flagged it down) on Reading called Philmont. Nearby was a rolling, tree-studded 92-acre farm where ponies were being raised. It looked to be ideal, and it was for sale.

A $250 deposit on a lease at $2,500 a year secured the property together with an option to buy it for $65,000. A landscape engineer said that a nine-hole couse could be laid out for about $5,000. It was estimated that the farmhouse on the hill could be converted into a clubhouse for $8,000.

An organizational meeting was attended by nearly 200 people, including many who still lived in the city. Ellis Gimbel was elected president. Completing the slate were Jack Aspen (vice president), Ely Selig (treasurer), and Charles Fox (secretary).

The club, which took its name from the train station, was an instantaneous—indeed, rousing—success. Five months later it could point to 592 members, with regular members paying annual dues of $50.

Few of those who joined had ever struck a golf ball. In fact, when the first greens committee was appointed, only two members could be found who had played golf. Tennis was the most popular sport then at Philmont. Baseball also had plenty of enthusiasts. Even polo had its devotees. And the club's younger women organized a basketball team.

Philmont officially opened on May 18,1907. In those days many of the members who continued to reside in the city took the 9:17 train on Saturday morning from Reading Terminal, and went back home on the 12:19 a.m., following the Saturday evening festivities. For them, a day at the country club was a long day. A horse-drawn bus transported them to and from the Philmont station.

Despite the members' unfamiliarity with the Scottish game, golf caught on quickly and within a year of the club's opening had become so popular that a decision was made to lease additional land and build nine more holes. Scotland's Willie Park, Jr., architect of Berkshire's course, was brought in to lay out the new holes and substantially reorder the original nine. This charming eighteen would come to be called the South course, to distinguish it from the club's longer and more challenging second eighteen, the outstanding North course, laid out by William Flynn in 1924. And Philmont, with Ellis Gimbel at the helm, would establish itself as one of the leading clubs in the Delaware Valley.
You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

hp@hc

Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2003, 03:31:08 PM »
Other courses with the railroad access:

Old Prestwick
Royal Troon
St Andrews
Pine Valley
Muirfield ( I think)

wsmorrison

Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2003, 03:35:17 PM »
Henry Flagler, the founder and president of the Florida East Coast Railroad (FECR) created the Model Land Company (MLC) in 1896 to manage his land holdings throughout Florida.  Numerous cities and resorts were developed and of course golf among other recreation activities were important factors in attracting home buyers and tourists.  Some of the towns included Deerfield, Pompano, Oakland Park, Ft. Lauderdale, Hollywood, Perrine, Hallandale, Miami, Homestead, Florida City, Princeton, Floranada, and Redland County.  Golf courses sprang up from St. Augustine and south to the terminus of the railway line.  Flynn designed Floranada, Opa Locka, Boca Raton North and South, Ritz Carlton North and South (I think) Normandy Shores, and Indian Creek.   I'll try to discuss some other golf projects related to this later (gotta run some errands).  

Dan Kelly

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2003, 03:57:44 PM »
Next year's GCA summer gathering will be in the heart of railroad golf country. Banff and Jasper were both Canadian railway projects: Banff, the Canadian Pacific; Jasper, the Canadian National.

See www.golftravelinformation.com/alberta/banff/
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Thomas_Brown

Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2003, 04:10:30 PM »
Peter Alliss: "What's the longest drive ever hit?"
Answer: "The drive off of the first tee at Prestwick"

(It's really easy to hit it onto the tracks there.)

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2003, 04:21:34 PM »
The 1st tee shot at Prestwick, Western Gailles and the 10th at Troon are very much influenced by the location and sounds of the railroad.

peter_p

Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2003, 04:46:18 PM »
Turnberry and Gleneagles are also railroad destination hotels.
Darwin's Aberdovey.

Jim Sweeney

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2003, 04:54:03 PM »
Greenbriar- the rail stop is immeadiately across the street from the resort entrance. The greenbriar is owned by the CSI Co.
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Jeff_Brauer

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2003, 06:09:24 PM »
"Of course the tracks went in every direction out of Chicago"

Shivas - not due east!  Southeast to Hammond, maybe, but there is one very big water hazard blocking rail traffic north of that.....

"Henry Flagler, the founder and president of the Florida East Coast Railroad (FECR) created the Model Land Company (MLC) in 1896"

Presumably to pursue his interest in model railroading?

"The greenbriar is owned by the CSI Co. "

That's actually CSX Transportation Company, a successor to the C and O railway.....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Mike Hendren

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2003, 08:15:39 PM »
My club has two courses, one of which is open to the public during the week and in the afternoon on weekends.  The members course is called Ironhorse due to the proximity of railroad tracks.

I have ordered a couple of photographs from David Joy of a steam locomotive stopped during play on the 16th green at TOC and of James Braid actually playing his third shot from the tracks short right of the same green.  They appear in his book "St. Andrews & The Open Championship."

Regards,

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Steve Lang

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2003, 08:33:55 PM »
 8)

Inverness was at the end of the west side trolley in Toledo.

The viability of Ottawa Park in Toledo, one of the oldest muni courses in the US (vintage 1899) was questioned because it was just beyond one of the city's trolley routes.

In the Rail Road Museum in York, Yorkshire UK there's a great collection of RR posters showing golfing destinations.. I have one with St. Andrews as destination, showing gents carrying golf bags,fashionable ladies putting, and the beach goers frolicking and the R&A and first tee at TOC in the background.
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

RJ_Daley

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Re:Classic Courses and Railroads
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2003, 08:35:06 PM »
Dan Kelly, didn't the Canadian Pacific RR specifically hire Stanley Thompson as their archie for their resort project up in Banff?  Does the RR go to Highland Links as well?

I'll bet those turn of the century archies had as much time in train depots travelling here and there to build courses as our modern day archies have in airports.  It may be 16 hours or what ever for Tom Doak to go to NZ, but it was probably  many more hours for Dr. MacKenzie to go back and forth to Crystal Downs, or ANGC.  Although the comfort of a sleeper berth was obviously better than even 1rst class airline seats.  Trains and boats must have become as tedious for that lot as airports are for our modern men.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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