First trip to Scotland

[Philip Gordillo]

Been dreaming of my first pilgrimage to the home of golf for quite sometime and I am taking a chance that this might be the summer with measured reopenings and reduced demand from international travelers.     We just purchased our plane tickets for mid July and we will be booking hotels in the next couple of weeks.  Assuming this works out, my buddy and I want to play TOC, Muirfield, North Berwick, and perhaps a couple of other courses during our weeklong stay.  A few questions for this esteemed group.


1) TOC sounds like the most complicated to get on.  Have any of you done the daily lottery?  We are only going for a week so should we try on the front end?  It would be unfortunate if we burn a few days trying unsuccessfully when we could have played other courses but we may have no other choice since this is the most important destination for us.  Curious if anyone has any advice given our time constraints.


2) Staying at the Greywalls sounds like the best option for Muirfield and NB.  Pictures and reviews look great as well.  We will stay here unless someone has a better idea.


3) What other courses do you recommend for first time visitors that would fit nicely with this itinerary?  We are renting a car since my friend has experience driving in the UK but we prefer not to stray too far afield if possible given our short trip.
 

[Marty Bonnar]

TOC’s going to be an ‘interesting’ proposition this year. They’re carrying over tee times booked for last year, so it might be near impossible getting a time - especially in July!
Your best bet will be the ballot. You might get split up from your buddy though as it’s much easier as a single golfer. Or, better still, get up VERY early and get down to the Starters and you might get lucky.
F.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Hi Philip,


You are indeed taking a bit of a risk. I have already written off the hope of getting back to see my parents (travelling from Ireland) for the second summer running, at least until August / September.


In addition, TOC, Muirfield and NB will not be the easiest courses to get tee-times at.


But I really hope you are successful. Staying in and around Gullane is a nice option although North Berwick itself might offer a little more liveliness under normal circumstances (if that is what you’re after).


If you get on the above three courses, I might be tempted to round it out with a couple of 2nd tier experiences, such as driving through the East Neuk villages in Fife, playing Elie and having a post round bite at The Ship Inn. You should play a 2nd round in St Andrews also (Eden or New) and make sure to have a spin round the putting green.

[James Reader]

Marty, not sure if it’s changed in the last few years, but you can’t enter the Old Course ballot as a single golfer - there has to be at least two of you.


Philip, this might seem a bit risky, but if you leave some days free in your itinerary and take your chances in the ballot, you’ll find out two days ahead whether you’re in or not.  If you are, great.  If not, there’s so many courses around East Lothian and Fife, that you’ll have no problem getting tee times somewhere else that’s worth playing.

[Marty Bonnar]

Marty, not sure if it’s changed in the last few years, but you can’t enter the Old Course ballot as a single golfer - there has to be at least two of you.


Philip, this might seem a bit risky, but if you leave some days free in your itinerary and take your chances in the ballot, you’ll find out two days ahead whether you’re in or not.  If you are, great.  If not, there’s so many courses around East Lothian and Fife, that you’ll have no problem getting tee times somewhere else that’s worth playing.

Oh yeah,
Forgot that! Think they changed that a few years ago.
Cheers,
F.

[Ira Fishman]

I would contact the courses you want to play right away. Their websites generally give clear guidance on how to book. You probably can know in next day or so what is available. I would add Elie and Kilspindie to your list. There may be tour operators who still have openings, but that is an expensive route and for TOC you need to careful that it is an official authorized operator—only they can get guaranteed tee times. The St Andrews website is pretty thorough about operators and the ballot process.


Ira

[jeffwarne]

Enter the lottery every day-even when/if you are down in east Lothian it's not a long drive/worth it for TOC.
try to book the courses you want-(Muirfield, NB) will be difficult.
There is plenty to play (Elie, Lundin, New, Crail,Glen,Eden, Himalayas Carnoustie,Kingsbarns, Burnside, Dunbar,Montrose,Panmure, Kilspindie,Renaissance,Longniddry, Gullane,Luffness etc. etc) Many will work with you if you win the lottery and cxl/reschedule.


If you get one of the difficult 3 you mentioned,you will have an incredible trip paired with any of the above.

[Steve Sayre]

You might think about an Air BnB in Gullane versus Greywalls.  Some nice options and an easy drive to NB and Muirfield if you are lucky enough to score the tee times, and obviously close to the Gullane courses -- if you play Gullane No. 1 on a beautiful day you will not soon forget the views.


In the town, splurge on $$$ dinner at the Bonnie Badger and make the Old Clubhouse your 19th hole destination. The pub food is fine here too.


Agree with all that if the Big Names are not available, the choice menu is almost endless and you will really enjoy the ambience and member chatter at all the area clubs.

[Brian_Ewen]

We just purchased our plane tickets for mid July and we will be booking hotels in the next couple of weeks. 

Don't forget your Quarantine Hotel also.

[Marty Bonnar]

We just purchased our plane tickets for mid July and we will be booking hotels in the next couple of weeks. 

Don't forget your Quarantine Hotel also.

Good point, Brian.
That might only be a week by then (currently ten days), but Philip needs to build at least that in.
F.

[John Emerson]

Idk how others feel, but booking hotels and flights should be the very last things you do.  Booking tee times is priority 1.  There’s tons of hotels and flights to go around.  If you don’t get on TOC early lottery ballot just find a place in St. Andrews to stay and try to walk up to the starter hut at like 430am and wait in line to see if there’s any open spots for the day.  You probably won’t be playing with your friends, especially this year.


There’s so many great course within 1 hr or so drive of St. Andrews. 

[Philip Gordillo]

Thanks for all of the great advice.  All good points.  Who knows what July will bring but the Wall Street Journal had an article this week saying herd immunity is closer to reality in US than we think.  Maybe its a pipe dream but its fun to think otherwise!

[John Emerson]

Thanks for all of the great advice.  All good points.  Who knows what July will bring but the Wall Street Journal had an article this week saying herd immunity is closer to reality in US than we think.  Maybe its a pipe dream but its fun to think otherwise!

Phillip,
I don’t think anyone is really trying to discourage your trip, but last golfing season was basically put on hold and rolled to this year and all of those folks have first priority.  You’re fighting for tee times with thousands in line from last year plus the ones from this year.  On a non-pandemic year it’s tough to get advanced times at the TOC.  You definitely should put your names in to see what happens, but it is really late in the season to do so.  I believe tee sheets open in September so you’re 6 months behind everyone else in the line.

[Philip Gordillo]

Thanks John, now I understand what we are up against.  I'm going to definitely temper my expectations.  Sounds like there are 2nd and 3rd tier golf courses that are still worthy of making the trip.  Would play a Scottish goat ranch at this point!   

[Jeff Schley]

Philip I have great news!!!!!!
You can almost guarantee your tee times at TOC if you simply get in line the night before at the Old Pavilion. If you have a twosome, which you will, get there before midnight and you will almost certainly get out and most likely together. So you pull an all nighter and some bring sleep bags, but you will remember the next day's golf for sure.

[mike_beene]

Always have stayed at the Marine Hotel in North Berwick but it has been a few years. I have never failed getting on Old Course just showing up and waiting a few hours. It is embarrassing when a threesome looks at me and says no. I think the drive over the bridge to Carnoustie is very worthwhile. Gullane, Muirfield, Carnoustie , North Berwick then play Old Course as many times as you can.If you don’t get on one day Kingsbarnes

[Jeff Schley]

Always have stayed at the Marine Hotel in North Berwick but it has been a few years. I have never failed getting on Old Course just showing up and waiting a few hours. It is embarrassing when a threesome looks at me and says no. I think the drive over the bridge to Carnoustie is very worthwhile. Gullane, Muirfield, Carnoustie , North Berwick then play Old Course as many times as you can.If you don’t get on one day Kingsbarnes

Mike, true I have heard the group (twosome or better IIRC) can decline to accept the golfers from the morning queue at TOC. I have never heard of someone declining to accept, but I'm sure it happens. Can't think of a good reason that would justify saying no to some strangers from the queue. 

[Brian_Ewen]

Thanks John, now I understand what we are up against.  I'm going to definitely temper my expectations.  Sounds like there are 2nd and 3rd tier golf courses that are still worthy of making the trip.  Would play a Scottish goat ranch at this point!   

Philip, no matter what, you are going to have a great time, and play some great courses, but don't forget even if you do not get a tee time for The Old Course, you can always take a walk around the course.


Sundays are ideal, as the course is normally closed, or in the evening as in July it will not get dark until late on.

[C. Sturges]

Philip,


As others have said you will have a great time where ever you play.   I did not notice it mentioned for TOC, check out the old course hotel.   They normally offer packages including TOC.   It is going to be expensive, but so is staying at Greywalls.  I believe a couple of the other high end hotels may also offer packages including TOC.


chris

[Tony_Muldoon]

For those who've never done it, just turning up early and queuing is a great experience. The hope and anticipation as you get up very early are part of the special feeling.


My first morning in on a 'normal' late July Monday morning in St A I wondered up to the starters shed at 8.45 to ask how it worked? He said there had been a large no of no shows and if I had my clubs I was off In 15mins! Sorted. 


Monday is a good day to try as Sundays its shut and many guys just move on.


Pitched up the following Monday at 5.40 and was accepted for the list but told that the earliest I'd be out was 10am. Went back to bed.


That was  a decade ago. 2019 in June I pitched up with another GCA just before 6 and as a twosome we were offered a time after 2.  Passed but walked to the New, paid our fees and played 36 holes.


As I understand it the only people who can refuse to accommodate 'extras' on their booking are the R&A members who's times are in the middle of the day. The guys I was hooked up with ranged from a 70 + YO from Texas called Wayne Grady "Not that one." To three teenage European students who should have been at their first class of an English language course. Their Englush was already as accomplished as their golf.

[Pete Lavallee]

Always have stayed at the Marine Hotel in North Berwick but it has been a few years. I have never failed getting on Old Course just showing up and waiting a few hours. It is embarrassing when a threesome looks at me and says no. I think the drive over the bridge to Carnoustie is very worthwhile. Gullane, Muirfield, Carnoustie , North Berwick then play Old Course as many times as you can.If you don’t get on one day Kingsbarnes

Mike, true I have heard the group (twosome or better IIRC) can decline to accept the golfers from the morning queue at TOC. I have never heard of someone declining to accept, but I'm sure it happens. Can't think of a good reason that would justify saying no to some strangers from the queue.


It happened to me and the wife in 1989. We were on the wait list and the starter called us and said to ask the couple he pointed out if we could join them. I asked and his reply, in a very upper crusty English accent, was “we’re going to be a two ball today”. I was floored! We did get off eventually

[John Sabino]

Philip - Greywalls is a good option if you can book it, although it is expensive. I would add Kingsbarns to your itinerary. Avoid those who advise against it because it's not a true links course. The design is really good and the views are spectacular. Many golfers who do a trip to the St. Andrews area come away and say it was their favorite course on the itinerary.

Carnoustie is also worth going up to, best routing in Scotland, maybe the world. Not pretty, but tough, fun and excellent caddies.


I've done the lottery twice with success at St. Andrews. If you do it as a single you would have high likelihood of success if you get there at 5am or so.


John

[Marty Bonnar]

Should also mention the latest addition to the Scottish pantheon, Dumbarnie, is only a fifteen minute drive from St A and well worth the cost!
F.

[James Reader]

Should also mention the latest addition to the Scottish pantheon, Dumbarnie, is only a fifteen minute drive from St A and well worth the cost!
F.

There speaks a Scot entitled to the reduced rates 
Seriously, I’m very tempted to play it this year.  Would you still say it’s worth it at the full fee of £258, Marty?

[Marty Bonnar]

Should also mention the latest addition to the Scottish pantheon, Dumbarnie, is only a fifteen minute drive from St A and well worth the cost!
F.

There speaks a Scot entitled to the reduced rates 
Seriously, I’m very tempted to play it this year.  Would you still say it’s worth it at the full fee of £258, Marty?

That’s still 70 quid cheaper than Kingsbarns!
Seriously, the market is getting silly. I’m not sure I could ever justify the better part of 300 quid for a game of golf, but the demand seems to be there - despite the situation.
Luckily, we still have terrific golf at very affordable prices too, so maybe a mad expensive day tempered by a day at a local Club (especially as a member’s guest! ) might be a reasonable compromise.
F.


PS You have a Fife address, don’t you?