News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
DryJect?
« on: February 19, 2021, 01:28:14 PM »
Anyone familiar with these--Superintendents in particular? I only know of a couple clubs who've used it but each was thrilled. Is it really as good as advertised?

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 01:41:16 PM »
We have used it at my home club for years.  I knew one of the guys who was involved when it first came out many years ago.  It is clean, quick and easy.  Are your greens compacted?  Is there a problem you are trying to solve? 

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2021, 10:50:23 AM »

We have used it at my home club for years.  I knew one of the guys who was involved when it first came out many years ago.  It is clean, quick and easy.  Are your greens compacted?  Is there a problem you are trying to solve?
 


I was more curious about the effectiveness on zoysia fairways. Just from the videos and some anecdotal comments from members who've seen it in action, sounds like the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Is there value for clubs a cut or 2 below those with unlimited budgets?

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2021, 10:56:03 AM »
You should reach out to our super John Chassard.  Great guy and very knowledgeable about this process.  Email me if you want his contact info. 

PGertner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2021, 11:52:36 AM »
Consider me a fan of DryJect. I have used it at two different clubs, one in the East, and one in the West. It's pricey, but cheaper than a drill and fill.


Here in SoCal, we injected a larger sand because greens we inherited do not drain. Between conventional aeration and DryJect, we added 125 tons of sand in three weeks during November. Another conventional aeration on March 1.


Patrick Gertner
Montebello CC

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2021, 01:35:49 PM »
North Berwick just trialled this on our 18th green. Our organic matter build up on most of the greens is around 11%. Our Course Manager has set out a plan to try to cut this in half. Will likely take a few years, but will hopefully help the firmness of the greens!


Will keep you posted on the results, and if we end up using this on the rest of the course.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2021, 04:37:12 PM »

We have used it at my home club for years.  I knew one of the guys who was involved when it first came out many years ago.  It is clean, quick and easy.  Are your greens compacted?  Is there a problem you are trying to solve?
 


I was more curious about the effectiveness on zoysia fairways. Just from the videos and some anecdotal comments from members who've seen it in action, sounds like the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Is there value for clubs a cut or 2 below those with unlimited budgets?


Not really a process for fairways. Too expensive. There are other alternatives. $.04-.07/ft2 is fair pricing. BEFORE sand.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2021, 04:39:09 PM »
Anthony,
I was just going to say the same thing.  Can't recall anyone using it on anything but greens and approaches.  Not everyone uses straight sand as well when they do use it.
Mark

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2021, 05:12:57 PM »
I was a bit confused with the name after looking up how it works:





P.S.  Looks like these guys are doing the whole fairway...and not just once...



Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2021, 06:01:50 PM »
Actually Merion used to do their fairways.  It has to be very expensive!!

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2021, 06:19:11 PM »
Actually Merion used to do their fairways.  It has to be very expensive!!


I played Merion on a Monday in 1988 with Bill Kittleman Jr and our fathers and Richie was aerating the fairways with green equipment.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2021, 08:40:44 PM »
I guess it depends on who you ask and why they believe they need to use DJ.  My personal experience with it was pretty good.  It can add a bunch of sand, increase surface drainage, and firm a surface up fairly quickly with minimal impact and play disruption compared to traditional core aeration events. Annnnndddd that is about the only advantage I see in it.  Agronomically speaking I do not see any long term benefits.  It may actually increase bulk density (compaction) if used repeatedly. While everyone hates aerification it is a necessary evil to reduce organic matter, increase water infiltration, decrease compaction, etc etc. I could go deep into the weeds on organic matter accumulation and control but that’s too much for now.  The peer reviewed literature points to having very short lived benefits and possible long term issues.  Like I said if you need to rapidly address those items above with a couple DJ events then I say go for it, but it should not be a habitual year after year a agronomic practice.  Nothing beats good ol fashion core aeration and sand incorporation.
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 08:46:13 PM »
John,
I am not sure DJ is a substitute.  Isn't more of a supplement?

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2021, 09:01:58 PM »
Mark,
Agreed.  Def not a substitute, just another agronomic tool.  Yes, a supplement that should be used very sparingly.  Once you achieved the desire results I wouldn’t use it anymore and then just continue down the path of sound practices so you don’t need to use DJ anymore.


I have a perfect example of how and when to use it.  Setting: Valhalla GC 2006 just before we started Ryder Cup renovations. 
Until then, we triplexed approaches and we decided to commit to walk mowing them going forward. They were a bit neglected and were puffy and soft.  Walk mowers were scalping the hell out of the approaches.  We verticutted, cored and sanded the hell out of them early that fall then a month later we came back with DJ.  The firmness turn around was astounding. After that, we treated approaches similar to greens as to not fall back into the same situation as before.
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2021, 09:15:10 PM »
Mark,
Agreed.  Def not a substitute, just another agronomic tool.  Yes, a supplement that should be used very sparingly.  Once you achieved the desire results I wouldn’t use it anymore and then just continue down the path of sound practices so you don’t need to use DJ anymore.


I have a perfect example of how and when to use it.  Setting: Valhalla GC 2006 just before we started Ryder Cup renovations. 
Until then, we triplexed approaches and we decided to commit to walk mowing them going forward. They were a bit neglected and were puffy and soft.  Walk mowers were scalping the hell out of the approaches.  We verticutted, cored and sanded the hell out of them early that fall then a month later we came back with DJ.  The firmness turn around was astounding. After that, we treated approaches similar to greens as to not fall back into the same situation as before.


I know numerous golf courses in FL that dryject 2x a year along with all their cultural practices, including aerification. They have been on this sort of program for 8-10yrs. They typically have some of the best greens in the state. If you can afford it, 1 dryject application a year should be fit into a budget. Packing the profile with clean sand allows Supts to sleep better at night. Even on brand new greens. Start the process, break up that grow in layer.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

John Emerson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2021, 09:32:06 PM »
Anthony,
I know it’s a prevalent practice for those who can afford it.  My whole thing with it is that if folks have enough money to use DJ then they have enough money to match organic matter accumulations to sand dilution via topdressing.  If dilution keeps up with OM then it is totally unnecessary and wasteful.  All of the peer reviews papers I have read say it’s a slippery slope and long term use will lead to heavy compaction at the soil-injection stream interface over time. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 09:35:25 PM by John Emerson »
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2021, 09:59:07 PM »
Anthony,
I know it’s a prevalent practice for those who can afford it.  My whole thing with it is that if folks have enough money to use DJ then they have enough money to match organic matter accumulations to sand dilution via topdressing.  If dilution keeps up with OM then it is totally unnecessary and wasteful.  All of the peer reviews papers I have read say it’s a slippery slope and long term use will lead to heavy compaction at the soil-injection stream interface over time.


Maybe. When your dealing with turf that literally grows 10+ months a year, aerification & topdressing alone can be a tough task. It’s a tool, doesn’t replace any 1 practice, but as long as you’re pulling cores too, compaction or BD won’t be a problem.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 10:14:39 PM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2021, 08:34:30 PM »
Thanks to all who took the time to respond--informative and appreciated.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2021, 07:18:10 AM »
Anthony,
I know it’s a prevalent practice for those who can afford it.  My whole thing with it is that if folks have enough money to use DJ then they have enough money to match organic matter accumulations to sand dilution via topdressing.  If dilution keeps up with OM then it is totally unnecessary and wasteful.  All of the peer reviews papers I have read say it’s a slippery slope and long term use will lead to heavy compaction at the soil-injection stream interface over time.


Your comment about "if folks have enough money to use DJ then they have enough money to match organic matter accumulations to sand dilution via topdressing." This thought process would be debunked as Oakmont, Muirfield Village, Naples National, Colonial, Olde Farm, Quail Hollow, Eagle Point & Shadow Creek, Cherry Hills, Pine Valley, Augusta, Shinnecock, Merion, Winged Foot, Crystal Downs, Chicago, Oak Hill, Riviera, LACC, Alotian, Pinehurst, Southern Hills, Honors, Erin Hills, Bethpage, Pikewood, Victoria National, TPC, Garden City, Oak Tree, Camargo, Kinloch, Inverness, Quaker, Somerset, Congo, Valley Club, Hazeltine, Aronimink, Crooked Stick, Hudson National & Valhalla all dryject. Safe to say they have the money, and still choose to use dryject.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 08:37:09 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2021, 12:01:51 PM »
As mentioned above Dryject is a great tool but not a complete replacement for aeration.


The sand injection has many benefits and uses.


It is a fantastic method to help convert a soil based green over to sand. By pulling cores and injecting the sand, over time, the rootzone will become more sandy and drain better. The other methods such as drill and fill work well too but as Pat mentioned DJ is a lot faster, cleaner and cheaper. The depth can be varied also which helps with this process.


It can add soil amendments (for nutrition holding) to sand based greens.


It will dilute organic matter in the profile by essentially blasting it and spreading it around deeper in the rootzone. While this might sound like a negative, we are talking about small amounts so they can decay without causing an issue. I’ve seen OM at less than 1% but the breakdown of the organic has made the upper sand darker due to the remnants of the carbon from the breakdown. This can also impede drainage and the DJ will move this soil though the profile - this is the main reason I use it.


The blast creates drainage channels in the thatch/mat layer that helps with surface drainage (provided the water has somewhere to go).


It can also help break up compaction layers in the soil as it blasts its way through.


It also firms up greens, which brings us to johns comment about adding compaction. By forcing more material in, it will increase bulk density, hence why other aeration practices should be used to mitigate it. I get that that sounds like a contradiction and creating more work but it will take a long time for the DJ alone to have a truly negative effect on bulk density. If you’re using Dryject, it is to accomplish some of, if not all of the items above so core aeration will still be carried out anyway. The Dryject is an add-on to accomplish other things.


I have also contracted them to just push water through the profile like the old Toro Hydrojects. In summer this is a great addition to needle tine aeration as it is non disruptive and goes a lot deeper than the little tines. It also helps me move that om carbon layer through the profile without adding any material. Just be careful in the heat of the summer to nor scald the roots.


I grew the greens in at LedgeRock so there would not be a grow-in layer and this has been greatly beneficial as the club didn’t have to work to get rid of it later. I have had the greens physical properties tested twice a year since then too to ensure the OM is where it should be. So in over 10 years, I have proof that the Dryject has not increased bulk density or created more compaction - there are no negative long term effects, only long term benefits provided it’s used properly in a program.


One big word of caution (although this also goes for any type of cultural practice that adds sand) is to make sure the water has somewhere to go. Dryjecting will convert a soil over to sand but at the bottom it will create a perched water table with the native soil so the sand will hold water (you’re essentially creating a bathtub). Therefore some sort of internal drainage is essential to get the water out.



A number of clubs have done Dryject on fairways to increase drainage and I know that Hamilton Farms does it at least yearly. At the very least possibly using it in wet areas on fairway would be a cost effective solution to drainage problems.


« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 01:16:07 PM by Alan FitzGerald »
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2021, 10:25:29 AM »
A short, recent video behind Dryject.


Key benefits of DryJect - YouTube
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2021, 11:19:04 AM »

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: DryJect?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2021, 03:58:52 PM »
Lookout Mtn is currently testing the solution, fingers crossed for great results.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back