[Thomas Dai]

Cities where the most famous golf course might not be the best course?


Most famous course ....... best course.


Thoughts?


Atb

[John Kavanaugh]

Using the criteria of cities where I have payed rent.  Chicago, St.Louis, New York, Orlando, London, Sydney and LA.

[JMEvensky]

Probably true for a lot of PGAT stops.


In Memphis, Southwind is the most famous (by default), but few in town would list it the best. Might not be top 3.

[Pete_Pittock]

Monterey,CA (SSA)
Famous/Pebble Beach
Best/Cypress Point Club

[Jeff_Brauer]

San Francisco


Olympic.....San Francisco CC

[Daryl David]

Seattle area-Sahalee

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

Using the criteria of cities where I have payed rent.  Chicago, St.Louis, New York, Orlando, London, Sydney and LA.

St. Louis for sure - Bellerive < SLCC

[Phil Burr]

Some are splitting hairs.  For example, LA (Riviera v. LACC), Monterey (PB v. Cypress), Columbus (Muirfield v. Golf Club) etc.  It's easy to pick SFGC over Olympic or Cypress over Pebble but that doesn't demean the more famous option.


Others are more cut and dried, such as:


Minneapolis: Hazeltine < Interlachen & White Bear
Atlanta: East Lake < Peachtree
Phoenix: TPC < 90% of everything else
Baltimore/DC: Congressional < Baltimore CC
Chicago: Medinah < Chicago GC
Dallas: Las Colinas < Trinity Forest
Toronto: Glen Abbey < St. George's
Miami: Blue Monster < Indian Creek


My list does reinforce the earlier point that the best courses shun the limelight or the pro tours select courses that flatter their games.

[Garland Bayley]

Portland Best Known
 LPGA plays at Columbia Edgewater
 Korn Ferry (whatever that is) Tour plays at Pumpkin Ridge.
I believe Tom Doak has designated Waverly as the best.
Of course if you talk to PGA members locally, they will tell you Tom Doak is full of beans on that one.

[Tim Martin]

Wampanoag CC wins over the more well known Hartford Golf Club.

[mike_malone]

Philadelphia


  Possibly


Merion most famous


Pine Valley best


But I need people from far away to confirm it because in Philly it’s all Pine Valley.

[Sean_A]

We shall see what happens with the renovation but presently I don't believe Oakland Hills is the best course in metro Detroit.

Ciao

[Matthew Rose]

I'd guess in Milwaukee, Brown Deer and Tuckaway had a higher profile than Milwaukee CC in the GMO days, but those are long gone now.

[jeffwarne]

Southampton, NY (Shinnecock vs, take your pick-toss up dep on taste)


breaking up NYC into three areas

Westchester, NYC  (Winged Foot vs. Sleepy Hollow, Wykagyl,QR,Fenway, WF east, etc)
NJ suburbs of NYC  (Baltusrol vs. Mountain Ridge,Hollywood,Plainview,Baltusrol Upper etc.)
Western LI suburbs NYC (Bethpage Black vs. Garden City,Huntington CC, Piping Rock, Creek, Engineers, North Shore, Rockaway, Inwood, Bethpage Red etc.)
Hilton Head  (Harbour Town vs. Long Cove)


Boston (TCC-do composite even count? vs. Myopia, Essex, Boston GC, Old Sandwich)

[Tim Gavrich]

Wampanoag CC wins over the more well known Hartford Golf Club.

Keney Park over both, IMHO. 

[Steve Kohler]

I think in terms of "fame" to the general golfing public (existing outside this GCA bubble), the answer in most cities will be the PGA Tour venue compared to any other course in the area.  There are obviously exceptions to this - Riviera is a timely example.  But I believe a large number of golfers equate a PGA Tour stop with the highest-quality course.


We have several good comparisons mentioned above.  For a specific example, I'd present Firestone as the inferior to nearby Canton Brookside.


I'd also venture that almost any city with a TPC course has better options available.

[Anthony Gholz]

We shall see what happens with the renovation but presently I don't believe Oakland Hills is the best course in metro Detroit.

Ciao

I add to Sean's opinion.  Clearly Oakland Hills has suffered for years with the Jones family's "bunkers at so many yards" philosophy.  So you could argue (as of 2020) that Orchard Lake, The CCD, and now with Mike's redo of Bloomfield Hills maybe even a vote for them as being "better."  Nothing like Colt and Alison as a pedigree.  (I'm biased)


HOWEVER,  having seen the drone shots shots of Mr Hanse's 2020 redo and a few drive by views to confirm,  there is no doubt that Oakland Hills South is back to being a big time Donald Ross layout with some of the best property in Michigan and the best greens in the country.  Mr Hanse has sublimated his ego to that of Ross and the course, from 100 yards in, will be Ross 1937 Open. His wholesale shift of the third hole was a master stroke. I believe regarding length that the course can no play whatever yardage they want.  Given his work I believe that OH South will once again be best in Detroit as well as "most famous" given whatever historic criteria you use.  I'd even give a little (very small!) elbow to Tom and suggest that CD may get a run for its money as best in state.  I'd suggest that Oakland's property, as a contiguous grouping of rolling holes and views that cover the course in one glance is better than CD's.  (I'm now ducking to avoid the slings and arrows).


Detroit as a whole is on an upswing with the care and feeding of its Golden Age courses in the last decade.  Orchard Lake (Foster), Bloomfield Hills (DeVries), Franklin Hills (tweaking by ?), Detroit Golf Club (especially the "lowly" 5800 yard South course w/Hepner), Birmingham (Hepner's best Detroit effort imo), The Country Club thanks to Tom and Keith Foster, Meadowbrook (Andy Staples), are all now ready for their closeups.  Even the Bendelow, Park, etc Red Run is slowly coming along with Bruce H again at the wheel).  Plum Hollow (Alison original) with Drew Rogers' revisions will be the next course due its own thread.


Anthony

[mark chalfant]

Seattle Famous:  Sahalee


Best: Fircrest by Macan


St. Louis famous: Bellerive  Best: St. Louis CC


Birmingham,AL  Best:  Mountain Brook by Ross   famous: Shoal Creek


Chicago  Medinah    Best: Shoreacres


Hartford area famous: TPC Cromwell      Best: Shuttle Meadow

[Stephen Davis]

Portland Best Known
 LPGA plays at Columbia Edgewater
 Korn Ferry (whatever that is) Tour plays at Pumpkin Ridge.
I believe Tom Doak has designated Waverly as the best.
Of course if you talk to PGA members locally, they will tell you Tom Doak is full of beans on that one.

No. He is definitely right. Waverley is special IMO.

[Thomas Dai]

Birmingham-ish ..... most famous/infamous .... The Belfry ..... best course ..... Little Aston/Blackwell?
Newport .... most famous/infamous .... Celtic Manor ..... best course .... Newport GC aka Rogerstone?
Aberdeen .... most famous/infamous .... TI ..... best RAGC aka Balgownie?
St Andrews ..... most famous TOC ...... best course .....? (sic)

Atb

[Sean_A]

We shall see what happens with the renovation but presently I don't believe Oakland Hills is the best course in metro Detroit.

Ciao

I add to Sean's opinion.  Clearly Oakland Hills has suffered for years with the Jones family's "bunkers at so many yards" philosophy.  So you could argue (as of 2020) that Orchard Lake, The CCD, and now with Mike's redo of Bloomfield Hills maybe even a vote for them as being "better."  Nothing like Colt and Alison as a pedigree.  (I'm biased)


HOWEVER,  having seen the drone shots shots of Mr Hanse's 2020 redo and a few drive by views to confirm,  there is no doubt that Oakland Hills South is back to being a big time Donald Ross layout with some of the best property in Michigan and the best greens in the country.  Mr Hanse has sublimated his ego to that of Ross and the course, from 100 yards in, will be Ross 1937 Open. His wholesale shift of the third hole was a master stroke. I believe regarding length that the course can no play whatever yardage they want.  Given his work I believe that OH South will once again be best in Detroit as well as "most famous" given whatever historic criteria you use.  I'd even give a little (very small!) elbow to Tom and suggest that CD may get a run for its money as best in state.  I'd suggest that Oakland's property, as a contiguous grouping of rolling holes and views that cover the course in one glance is better than CD's.  (I'm now ducking to avoid the slings and arrows).


Detroit as a whole is on an upswing with the care and feeding of its Golden Age courses in the last decade.  Orchard Lake (Foster), Bloomfield Hills (DeVries), Franklin Hills (tweaking by ?), Detroit Golf Club (especially the "lowly" 5800 yard South course w/Hepner), Birmingham (Hepner's best Detroit effort imo), The Country Club thanks to Tom and Keith Foster, Meadowbrook (Andy Staples), are all now ready for their closeups.  Even the Bendelow, Park, etc Red Run is slowly coming along with Bruce H again at the wheel).  Plum Hollow (Alison original) with Drew Rogers' revisions will be the next course due its own thread.


Anthony

I am very impressed with the Birmingham changes some years back. Its a sleeper course. I am told Bloomfield is out of this world. I have never heard anybody really talk up that course until recently.

Ciao

[Tom Mills]

Birmingham-ish ..... most famous/infamous .... The Belfry ..... best course ..... Little Aston/Blackwell?
Newport .... most famous/infamous .... Celtic Manor ..... best course .... Newport GC aka Rogerstone?
Aberdeen .... most famous/infamous .... TI ..... best RAGC aka Balgownie?
St Andrews ..... most famous TOC ...... best course .....? (sic)
 
Atb

Completely agree, Paris nationale would be another example. Interestingly, an argument could be made to your original point, how many cities have famous golf courses which actually ARE the best. There probably would be a huge amount. Principally because "fame" these days has lead to course modifications to cope with the modern game, which has adjusted the way the course was designed to play.


Just my opinion

[Joe_Tucholski]

Cleveland/Akron:  Famous - Firestone/Best - debatable but not Firestone (The CC, Kirtland, Pepper Pike, Canterbury, Brookside)

[Will Lozier]

Cleveland/Akron:  Famous - Firestone/Best - debatable but not Firestone (The Golf Club, Kirtland, Pepper Pike, Canterbury, Brookside)

The Golf Club is in Columbus. Did you mean The Country Club?

[Joe_Tucholski]

Cleveland/Akron:  Famous - Firestone/Best - debatable but not Firestone (The Golf Club, Kirtland, Pepper Pike, Canterbury, Brookside)

The Golf Club is in Columbus. Did you mean The Country Club?

Yes thank you.  I haven't played either, for what it's worth.

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