147+1 Custodians

[Brock Lynch]

I would also like to know why Ran removed courses from and added courses to the list.

Ran explained why on the GCA 2021 thread:

"Rather than add a single course to get to 148, I made more changes. There are several hundred courses/clubs out there that fit my criteria as a Custodian. At one addition a year, many would never get recognized, so the list turned over about 10%. "

I should have been more explicit in asking why each course was added or removed. If the list turns over about 10% each year, I suppose we should take it that those courses that remain are the genuine Custodians?

[Mike Sweeney]

I should have been more explicit in asking why each course was added or removed. If the list turns over about 10% each year, I suppose we should take it that those courses that remain are the genuine Custodians?

Yale was removed from 147 Custodians and the Golf.com list. We can argue about hairy bunkers all day long, but the treatment of loyal 20+ year employees was a disgrace, and certainly not "Custodian-like".

[V_Halyard]

Maybe I am spending too much time reading the tea leaves...but with Davenport and Harvester joining Cedar Rapids, am wondering if Vaughn Halyard has talked Ran into running for Governor of Iowa.

lol
I don't have a high enough golf deep state security clearance to move that needle.
It's Iowa. Golf architecture is a path to sanity, you bring friends to play, you do what you can.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Music is a sound no more or less equal to conversation.

That's not remotely true.


And far, far too many people play music loudly enough to be heard far beyond their group.

[Thomas Dai]

Sound does have a place in golf.
The sound made by spiked shoes and the sound of persimmon on balata to name just a couple of sounds from the past that would seem to fit in with the 147+1 ethos.
Atb

[Ronald Montesano]

It's his kingdom and we are passing through;


It would be nice to have a list of These dropped off and These were added, but I won't lose sleep;


Unless there is a course (like SentryWorld) that gets added for no apparent reason, take him at his word, that there will always be annual changes.

[JESII]

It's funny...as I grow older, the more I enjoy a nice soundtrack through the round. No reason for it to carry across fairways, but if a low key tune at modest volume bothers you as we cross each other on the golf course I'd consider that a you problem.

[Kalen Braley]

It's funny...as I grow older, the more I enjoy a nice soundtrack through the round. No reason for it to carry across fairways, but if a low key tune at modest volume bothers you as we cross each other on the golf course I'd consider that a you problem.

Jim,

What is the difference between your playing partners have a conversation in hearing range as you're trying to play a shot vs someone playing music in the next fairway over?

I was taught that talking while someone is trying to take a shot is one of the rudest etiquette violations on the golf course... 

[JESII]

As I said, if the music carries across fairways, it's too loud.

[Kalen Braley]

As I said, if the music carries across fairways, it's too loud.

Then that's a different thing.  If everyone in your group is OK with it, or you're playing as a single... and it won't impact any other groups at any point in the round, then I certainly don't have an issue with it...

However, the conversation was framed differently in earlier posts that people who don't like to hear music on the course should just get over it, even if it carried over from other groups.

[JESII]

Kalen,


If you and I are on parallel fairways and fairly close, my music should not be loud enough to bother you...but...if you hear it at whisper level and are offended, I think that's a you problem.


Does a cart on another fairway bother you? How about clanking clubs?


There's certainly a line that I don't think should be crossed. I can tolerate a lot but never want to impose...I do agree with the suggestions that some people are just looking for something to complain about.


Agree that it's a fine line...but nowhere near as bad as wearing a hat indoors. That's a hard no.

[Mark Mammel]

The music question is really quite devisive. As noted above, the problem with music is the very personal nature of the selections, and the potential for it to detract from the very nature of the game and the reason many of us play. When I was golf chair at White Bear Yacht Club a few years ago, members nearly came to blows over music being played in some golf carts near the golf porch and first tee during a member-member competition. As the music was playing from an an unoccupied cart near the first tee (occupants were inside getting a beverage), another member came over and shut it off. The individual playing the music was not happy, and words were exchanged. The pro shop intervened and it was sent to the golf committee. The golf committee recommended that a "no music except through headphones" rule be added, but the board declined to adopt this policy, mainly concerned that younger members have a different ethic than older, more traditional members. However, the compromise we arrived at has worked well. The current policy is that music may be played if members of the group agree BUT if it can be heard by anyone else, it is too loud and must be turned off. In fact, very few member play music these days- but there are exceptions, and it is clear that even younger members at a traditional place like WBYC do like there music.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

If you and I are on parallel fairways and fairly close, my music should not be loud enough to bother you...but...if you hear it at whisper level and are offended, I think that's a you problem.

Does a cart on another fairway bother you? How about clanking clubs?

There's certainly a line that I don't think should be crossed. I can tolerate a lot but never want to impose...I do agree with the suggestions that some people are just looking for something to complain about.

Agree that it's a fine line...but nowhere near as bad as wearing a hat indoors. That's a hard no.

Jim,

Very much agreed.  Music on an adjacent fairway that is scarcely audible doesn't seem problematic, similar to if my playing partners were whispering 30 feet away, it wouldn't be a big deal.

But I do think noise in general from unseen sources can be bothersome.  I recall this one time playing a muni in the Bay Area, and these two geese were really getting after each other near a green we were on.  I can't recall if we chased them off or not, but distinctly recall it being a huge distraction. 

P.S.  The unwritten hat rule, I just don't get it.  What is so offensive about a hat indoors? Who is the victim on this? lol

[JESII]

Not sure...but all of the people I’ve respected the most espouse it.


They’re pretty well divided on music but none are passionate one way or the other.

[PCCraig]

The music question is really quite devisive. As noted above, the problem with music is the very personal nature of the selections, and the potential for it to detract from the very nature of the game and the reason many of us play. When I was golf chair at White Bear Yacht Club a few years ago, members nearly came to blows over music being played in some golf carts near the golf porch and first tee during a member-member competition. As the music was playing from an an unoccupied cart near the first tee (occupants were inside getting a beverage), another member came over and shut it off. The individual playing the music was not happy, and words were exchanged. The pro shop intervened and it was sent to the golf committee. The golf committee recommended that a "no music except through headphones" rule be added, but the board declined to adopt this policy, mainly concerned that younger members have a different ethic than older, more traditional members. However, the compromise we arrived at has worked well. The current policy is that music may be played if members of the group agree BUT if it can be heard by anyone else, it is too loud and must be turned off. In fact, very few member play music these days- but there are exceptions, and it is clear that even younger members at a traditional place like WBYC do like there music.

Mark!! You're going to get us kicked off the Custodians list!!!!!


I'll admit I bought a little bag speaker for the main purpose of being able to play Disney music during family golf for our young daughter. I understand the appeal of listening to music on the golf course...heck, the Cradle at Pinehurst plays its classic rock pretty loud? In situations like that, I think it can be fun. But on a typical Saturday morning round with my buddies I would typically pass on the tunes.

[Mark Mammel]

Pat- not to worry. As you know, it is now a non-issue at the club. Members respect each other and it works. Hey, music on the driving range during an Invitational is excellent.

[Jeff Schley]

I'll admit I bought a little bag speaker for the main purpose of being able to play Disney music during family golf for our young daughter. I understand the appeal of listening to music on the golf course...heck, the Cradle at Pinehurst plays its classic rock pretty loud? In situations like that, I think it can be fun. But on a typical Saturday morning round with my buddies I would typically pass on the tunes.

Careful Pat, it sounds like you are just wanting to be considered a good dad like Ted Cruz vacationing in Cancun. 

[PCCraig]

I'll admit I bought a little bag speaker for the main purpose of being able to play Disney music during family golf for our young daughter. I understand the appeal of listening to music on the golf course...heck, the Cradle at Pinehurst plays its classic rock pretty loud? In situations like that, I think it can be fun. But on a typical Saturday morning round with my buddies I would typically pass on the tunes.

Careful Pat, it sounds like you are just wanting to be considered a good dad like Ted Cruz vacationing in Cancun. 

Ha! Yeah....right.... 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

No Kingsley or Cape Wickham surprises me

[jeffwarne]

It's funny...as I grow older, the more I enjoy a nice soundtrack through the round. No reason for it to carry across fairways, but if a low key tune at modest volume bothers you as we cross each other on the golf course I'd consider that a you problem.

Jim,

What is the difference between your playing partners have a conversation in hearing range as you're trying to play a shot vs someone playing music in the next fairway over?

I was taught that talking while someone is trying to take a shot is one of the rudest etiquette violations on the golf course... 

Can't both be true?
Can't it be ok to inadvertently catch a bar or two of music from another passing group,
and still think it's rude to talk within your own group while another is playing nearby?

[Thomas Dai]

Music can effect others too, eg housing close to courses.
Atb

[Kalen Braley]

It's funny...as I grow older, the more I enjoy a nice soundtrack through the round. No reason for it to carry across fairways, but if a low key tune at modest volume bothers you as we cross each other on the golf course I'd consider that a you problem.

Jim,

What is the difference between your playing partners have a conversation in hearing range as you're trying to play a shot vs someone playing music in the next fairway over?

I was taught that talking while someone is trying to take a shot is one of the rudest etiquette violations on the golf course... 

Can't both be true?
Can't it be ok to inadvertently catch a bar or two of music from another passing group,
and still think it's rude to talk within your own group while another is playing nearby?

Jeff,

I suppose it can be OK...if music doesn't bother you on the golf course. As a golfer thou, knowing that various sounds can interrupt one's concentration process during the setup and swing, I figure most would be able to put themselves in the shoes of others around them and refrain.  But perhaps this isn't the case...

P.S. I've played dozens of rounds with my buddy in Spokane and he is hands down the most insensitive person I know when it comes to other people's feelings or otherwise, (he has a mild form of Aspergers).  But even he never once thought to play music for all to hear on the golf course, and always wore ear buds without exception.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Regards this last conversation, I play golf primarily to get away from the noise and rush of modern life.


I love music. I play it, I go to concerts, I buy it, listen to it intently.


I cannot understand why anyone would want it on a golf course. Background music is pointless in the best of circumstances. And on a golf course?...


Just my take.

[JMEvensky]

Regards this last conversation, I play golf primarily to get away from the noise and rush of modern life.


I love music. I play it, I go to concerts, I buy it, listen to it intently.


I cannot understand why anyone would want it on a golf course. Background music is pointless in the best of circumstances. And on a golf course?...


Just my take.

I'm in this same camp. I listen to music proactively--it's on because I want to hear that particular piece of music. Never have understood the point of background music unless you're in an elevator.


But, different strokes.

[Ted Sturges]

I see music on the golf course as more of a "respect issue".  If when playing you are thinking only of yourself and your own experience, you'll see no problem in playing music...not even understanding how it might affect the experience of others on the golf course.  If you are thinking respectfully of others, you wouldn't ever do that, surmising (correctly) that many would rather enjoy a walk in nature without noise pollution (and that a respectful person would not want to impose their will on others and steal that experience from them).  To me, it is about respect...for the game, and especially for others.


This is Bay Hill week and it brings me back to all that Arnie did for the game and for the tour.  I remember hearing stories from past Bay Hill Invitationals where during the practice round days, Arnie would walk up and down the range and pull some tour pros aside and ask them to shave their faces for his event.  Arnie reasoned that tour pros had in important image to represent as members of the PGA Tour (and the "P" stands for professional). Arnie (and others) invested heavily into making the PGA Tour something they could all be proud of.  Arnie would remind these young pros that some fan might be seeing that pro play for the first and only time in their life...and he wanted the fan to walk away impressed with the entire experience. 


During the event at Riviera, I noticed a young tour pro wearing sweat pants, no socks and an untucked shirt.  I wondered who decided "couch wear" was now acceptable on the PGA tour (Arnie would not pleased, that is for sure).  Seems to me that more tour players than not choose not to shave their face during the event (and I'm not talking about the guys with beards, but rather the guys who just don't choose to shave for a few days).  Arnie has lost this battle, that is for sure.  I had some young people I respect tell me that we need to allow "couch wear" and the no shave look, as it is a means to "grow the game".  I have a hard time with this (and with music on the golf course).  If growing the game means bringing people into the game who don't respect others, and specifically those who have given much to the game, is that the kind of "growth" we truly need?


TS