[Rob Marshall]

Why don't more players hit their tee shot over the right fairway bunker and put it down in the valley closer to the green? Why leave yourself 165 years when you can have a little flip wedge?

[David Ober]

Why don't more players hit their tee shot over the right fairway bunker and put it down in the valley closer to the green? Why leave yourself 165 years when you can have a little flip wedge?

There must be a reason. It's been a while since I played Pebble, but I believe the fairway is very narrow past the bunkers and if you miss even slightly right, you are in deep rough and blocked out by some trees. But not sure. Also, the carry is 275 at a minimum to cover the last bunker (and there might be a tee box behind the one I'm looking at on GolfLogix. 275, at sea level, when it's 55 degrees, and a wind in your face, and you're wearing more clothes than usual, is like 295/300 carry, so fewer guys that you would think can actually make that carry.


Anyone else?

[V. Kmetz]

I think that's most of it... plus:

• though it ought to take 5 out of play, the resulting flip wedge is not as easy to get close to pins on that green as short yardage suggests...
• the misses down in that area can be hairy (trees and rough)
• the 160-170 yard shot they usually get is like a 5-6 iron for me, but a very comfortable short iron for them, stable spin and distance control.

As we all know, you can't miss this green and hope to get up and down, and Crosby or Open players know you cant make a 5 there at that stage.  That has to influence what money players will think to do, to force a 3 with a flip wedge down in the area that RM suggests.

[David Ober]

I think that's most of it... plus:

• though it ought to take 5 out of play, the resulting flip wedge is not as easy to get close to pins on that green as short yardage suggests...
• the misses down in that area can be hairy (trees and rough)
• the 160-170 yard shot they usually get is like a 5-6 iron for me, but a very comfortable short iron for them, stable spin and distance control.

As we all know, you can't miss this green and hope to get up and down, and Crosby or Open players know you cant make a 5 there at that stage.  That has to influence what money players will think to do, to force a 3 with a flip wedge down in the area that RM suggests.

The second time I played Pebble, 16 derailed a really solid round for me. Was cruising along under par and made double there. Missed a back-left pin just long and made my only double of the day.

[V. Kmetz]

I think that's most of it... plus:

• though it ought to take 5 out of play, the resulting flip wedge is not as easy to get close to pins on that green as short yardage suggests...
• the misses down in that area can be hairy (trees and rough)
• the 160-170 yard shot they usually get is like a 5-6 iron for me, but a very comfortable short iron for them, stable spin and distance control.

As we all know, you can't miss this green and hope to get up and down, and Crosby or Open players know you cant make a 5 there at that stage.  That has to influence what money players will think to do, to force a 3 with a flip wedge down in the area that RM suggests.

The second time I played Pebble, 16 derailed a really solid round for me. Was cruising along under par and made double there. Missed a back-left pin just long and made my only double of the day.

In all the talk we give to Pebble, it's another inland hole that's better and more interesting in the playing than the watching on TV. In the way 2, 3, 11, 14, are unlike the surf and turf reputational image of the course at large, it is a diverse hole that makes a Pebble rd more than the sum of its stirring, photogenic parts.

[Kalen Braley]

Anyone watching the last few groups today saw how nasty that hole can play with a double and a 4 jack Triple after missing right and long to that back right hole location.

P.S.  Jordan did bomb it all the way down there and still left a 80 yard pitch 40+ feet from the hole...

[Pat Burke]

It’s pretty sharply downhill just past those bunkers. Controlling the ball on the downslope is an issue
Both on the tee shots not getting away from you
And hitting from the hanging lies

[Kalen Braley]

Google earth shows the fairway is 50 yards wide before the bunkers, and then just 22 yards in that last bit.

I would think that would be deterrent enough to not challenge that area too much from 260 yards away (from the back tee location.)

[Tom_Doak]

Google earth shows the fairway is 50 yards wide before the bunkers, and then just 22 yards in that last bit.

I would think that would be deterrent enough to not challenge that area too much from 260 yards away (from the back tee location.)

That, plus a very sharply tilted green surrounded by deep rough.  You don't want to have to try to hold that green from a downhill lie out of the rough.

[Terry Lavin]

I think that's most of it... plus:

• though it ought to take 5 out of play, the resulting flip wedge is not as easy to get close to pins on that green as short yardage suggests...
• the misses down in that area can be hairy (trees and rough)
• the 160-170 yard shot they usually get is like a 5-6 iron for me, but a very comfortable short iron for them, stable spin and distance control.

As we all know, you can't miss this green and hope to get up and down, and Crosby or Open players know you cant make a 5 there at that stage.  That has to influence what money players will think to do, to force a 3 with a flip wedge down in the area that RM suggests.

The second time I played Pebble, 16 derailed a really solid round for me. Was cruising along under par and made double there. Missed a back-left pin just long and made my only double of the day.

In all the talk we give to Pebble, it's another inland hole that's better and more interesting in the playing than the watching on TV. In the way 2, 3, 11, 14, are unlike the surf and turf reputational image of the course at large, it is a diverse hole that makes a Pebble rd more than the sum of its stirring, photogenic parts.

Well summarized!

[Mark_Fine]

If a drive is not placed well that far down the fairway, you can easily have tree problems. 

[V. Kmetz]

I've always had admiration for the hole, but now that I'm engaged with this conversation, I also recognize that it's the rare "around 400 +/-" yd hole that still challenges and stimulates a wide range of players, naturally, without much gimmick.


I can't think of too many of those anymore... the 380 to 420 hole type is just about dead on championship courses, no? A 400 yard hole has always (still) brings a notion of challenge to me, but to the A golfing world, I don't think so.

[mike_beene]

This thread has me thinking about how good 11 is. No one ever talks about it but a cool uphill hole with a green that gets your attention plus a cool view back down. I always thought 15 was strangely wide but they have changed that with the bunkering. I prefer wide but that is not Pebble.

[David_Tepper]

Seems to me the choice of tee shots on #16 depends a lot on where the pin is located. If the pin is on the right side of the green, you want your tee shot down the left side and vice-versa.

[AChao]

Dowhnill lie, rough, slanted green, trees.  Also fairway could be wet and variation in mowing height from slope could be smaller reasons for laying-up.

[Kalen Braley]

After watching again this weekend, I'm reminded of how much slope is on that green.  I wonder if they have to maintain it slightly slower to keep it playable.

[Jason Thurman]

I like the hole better and better all the time.


It's cool to see a 400 yard par 4 that holds its own. Interesting that the "goalpost trees" are more in play for a big drive than a shorter one. They're not huge. Even a mortal can likely negotiate them with a short iron. But drive it down within 70-80 yards of the green onto the downslope and even a pro can get stymied.


The slope of the green also seems more challenging for an elite player with a wedge, relative to an average player just hoping to hit the target. Easy to get too much spin and peel back away from pins, especially back right, where a short iron flighted well can skip up and hold a little closer and a slightly misstruck average player's approach might even benefit from the slope sorta "catching" their ball.

[Phil Burr]

Justin is correct that amount of spin generated by elite players makes the approach more difficult, particularly to a right-hand-pin where they would need to land the ball to the right of the pin to get it close, but a right miss is dead.  Another factor that might help ams (right-handers at least) is that from 150-180 yards, where most will pay their approach, it's fairly common that their shot shape works left to right, which has the ball checking into the slope.  Jordan Spieth's second shot Saturday aside, pros tend to play most lofted clubs dead straight whereas left to right would help soften the blow here.

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