distance markers - yes or no

[JohnV]

Mike, good story.

I got a good test of my eye last week.  Another one of the WPGA staff and I went out to measure from 100, 150 and 200 yards for a course so that they could put in plates.  He stood at the green with the laser while I went out and tried to guess where to start.  On about 12 of the non-par-3 holes I was able to get within 5 yards of the first spot I went to.  The other two I messed up by not understanding how deep the green really was.  After that, in a cart, I drove to within 3 yards of almost all the other two locations on each fairway.  Felt pretty good about my eye for distance.

Rcih, As far as I know she has gone off to college, but she might be back next year.  The course is ok without her, but I'm sure it ranks near the top when she is around.  One day they called her up to see if she could come in because they had a special group for her to caddie.  Turns out it was Michael Jordan and Mario Lemuix (sp?).  Beauty has its advantages sometimes.

[tonyt]

Hmmm,

Since organised golf matches on courses, Golfers had caddies LONG before any golfers carried their own sticks.

[allysmith]

Surely distance judgement should retaurn as a skill. It may offset the damage done by technology.

There is NOTHING in the world worse than 'target golf'

[hp@hc]

I would like to disagree with almost everyone on this thread who says that NOT having yardage markers slows up play.  What a lot of poppycock!

I grew up playing golf in Britain, where there are no yardages, partly because thats the way golf is SUPPOSED to be played, and partly because on a links course you can forget about it!  I have legitimately been on a par 3 one day with a 9 iron, and the next day with a punch 4-iron - - -tell me what a number is going to do for me in that case!

And may I remind you that the average time for an 18-hole game in Ireland/England and Scotland (unless you are at a resort or tourist trap) is about 3 and 3/4 hours.  Anything more than 4 hours and you get stared at by every group that comes to the bar after for a wee dram!

As has been stated in this thread already, it actually speeds up play, because you don't get those "Phil & Bones" debates, and you learn to go back to your instincts!

While I concede that the first 1 or 2 days of "no yardage help" golf may be a struggle, I think you in the US could all benefit from "eyeballing" your shot, and you would see better scores and faster rounds!

There is nothing more frustrating than seeing a 28 handicapper pacing off from 213 out, waiting for the green to clear, only to snipe it into the right woods, and when he finally gets up to the green he goes thru it all again.  Let's face it, unless you are Chad Campbell, you really are not that consistent with yardages - and we ALL think we can hit it further thatn we really do.  That's why architects put all the trouble in FRONT of the green .  I also agree with someone earlier who said the water should be turned off, US courses are too green, leading to target golf with drivers not having the opportunity to run into trouble - they practically plug in the fairway!!

IMHO yardage markers should be out, and GPS should be sent packing.  The game should be more about instinct, judgement and FEEL

[skivail]

There are no distance markers or carts or caddies really, at RM. I know that the people from overseas comming to play the course sometimes get caddies but apart from that there is no markers on the course at all.

[Rick Shefchik]

I'm coming over to Shivas' point of view on this thread. Despite the fact that my son caddies in the summer (for $20 a round, not $50), the concept of the pro and his shrink/coach/human yardage book/bellboy/scapegoat has really gotten ridiculous. I was watching the tour championship this weekend and happened to catch an exchange between Davis Love III and his caddie, something to the effect of Davis grabbing a wedge out of the bag and his caddy saying, "I like that play." What's not to like? One of the greatest players who ever lived was inside 100 yards and pulled a wedge. Did he really need corroboration from a guy who schleps his bag?

Nobody asks my son for advice. In fact, a lot of the people he caddies for tend to resent his presence (they have to take caddies or carts before 2 p.m.) Maybe it's time to give up the romantic notion of a guy being guided around the course by his caddy. The good players don't need it, and the bad players don't want it.

[Doug Siebert]

I find it is a lot easier to eyeball the distance on a shot I'm running rather than flying, that's probably part of the reason why most golfers want distances these days, and those in the UK have an easier time doing without.

In any case, there's no way to put the genie in the bottle.  Face it, and move on.  You can design a course with no yardage markers at all and sell no yardage books, but nothing stops me from walking off the distances on a slow day or slowly over time and making my own yardage book.  I can memorize it if you kick people off the course for having one -- I already know what distances are on all the sprinkler heads in my typical landing areas on the courses I frequent without looking anyway, so it wouldn't be the that!  Bring back the ground game I might not care so much whether I'm 125 or 145.

While I gotta go along with Shivas' sentiment that it is pretty hypocritical to bemoan the marked sprinker heads on one hand and think caddies are OK on the other.  A caddie on an unmarked course may not be able to give you an exact number, but if he says "definitely an 8 for you" when you were thinking 6 and you stick it close with your 8, its no different than looking at a sprinkler head and seeing its 158 to the front of a green with a red flag meaning the pin is up today.

Besides, if there were no caddies, there'd be a fair number of skeletons out on Prestwick from all the golfers who starved to death walking aimlessly through the tall grass trying to find the next tee  

[Joe Hancock]

Doug,

Do you have to work all day tomorrow? It' supposed to be 60-ish....you could come check out my yardage markers! Give me a call....

I hate artificial things sticking out of the ground for yardage sake, so our course marks irrigation heads and has some plates on edges of fairways...

Joe

[Bill_McBride]

The funniest course for no markers is the Valley Club in Santa Barbara.  They are very proud of the fact that there is not a single yardage marker anywhere on the golf course.  Very traditional, very pukka sahib and all that.

However, the scorecard has a small diagram of each hole, really just a stick drawing, and there is a yardage by a symbol at various distances and a key to the symbols nearby.  One symbol is for an oak tree, another for a sprinkler control box, another for a different variety of tree, yet another for another variety........... you have to be a fricking arborist to figure it out.  Then there's one tree that's still on the scorecard that hasn't been there for years.  "Oh yeah, that one was about over there" is the typical response from the member.    

[MainelyJack]

My home course used to have a distinctive bush planted on the edge of the rough at 150 yds. That was it.That was fine as far as I am concerned. They have now added the red, white and plue distance plates along with marking most of the sprinkler heads. I do believe a lot of time is wasted by some golfers who look for a sprinkler head marking unless their ball is near or at the colored markers. I like the judgment involved in having just one or three points of reference. I have disliked the barber pole ever since I hit a low flying lay up shot on a par five which would have stopped just short of some mounding and traps and the ball hit the damn thing and was redirected 90 degrees left into some deep rough. I abhor the GPS. Some people I have played with act as if they have been blinded if the signal is not working. It eliminates judgement and slows down the game as people keep calliong out distances from different parts of the course. Keep it simple and use your judgement. That is a skill.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

I'm a fan of accurate yardage markers.

The worst problems I have ever had on a marked course occurred at Myopia Hunt Club.  The sprinkler heads have no markings on them, but the yardage book for sale in the pro shop will tell you how far each head is from the front of the green.  If you can figure out which sprinkler head in the book is which on the ground, you're all set.

They also have a white 150-yard disc in the middle of each fairway  You would think that this would help identify the sprinkler heads, but it didn't.  Until the member I was playing with told me that the 150-yard markers are measured to the middle of the green.

During a competitive round, I asked my caddie the yardage, and he said, "hold on a minute."  I looked, and he was crunching the numbers with a pencil and paper.

[A_Clay_Man]

Herr Schmidt- I challenge you to this hypothesis:

You have just been given the honor to compete in the At&t. Comp!

I gaurantee that your thoughts will eventually settle on getting a caddy. Who's good? who's available?

And after the show, and you made the cut, how much was this caddie worth to you?