TPC Scottsdale #17

[Tom_Doak]

Jim Hoak tried to bring this hole up on the 16th hole thread, but it deserves its own.


I'm curious what others think of it.  I will reserve my comments for later.

[David Ober]

Jim Hoak tried to bring this hole up on the 16th hole thread, but it deserves its own.


I'm curious what others think of it.  I will reserve my comments for later.

I'm pretty sure I love it, but I'm afraid I'm wrong ....


 

[Jeff Ober]

[size=78%]I'm a big fan.  Death left, bail out right becomes really difficult with the pin cut either right (due to big swale) or left (due to green running away and shaved bank).  Love that it runs fast off the left side to catch hooks and poor chips/pitches.  I wish the center-right fairway bunker was 10-15 yards or so further up to be more in play off the tee for the pros, but otherwise it's great.   [/size]

[Carl Rogers]

For Pro Golf, I think it is great because so many scores are possible down the stretch of a tournament.
For the rest of us, crash cart golf only adds to the slow play calamity.
Design wise, I think it is fairly crude and derivative.  Contrast w/ Riviera #10.

[Andrew Harvie]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

[Mark Kiely]

It seems to do exactly what it's supposed to do at a crucial point in the round, so I love it.


Always surprised that every year someone seems to do exactly what Xander did yesterday with a bad miss way left.

[mike_malone]

 I like it.
 
It’s a second shot hole with very interesting positions and strategies. Even a putt is an interesting second shot sometimes.
  Any hole where the spread is eagle to bogey on a par four is intriguing.


 At the end of the tournament several players were under pressure to make a score there. That’s usually a prescription for wild things.


I’m usually not a fan of water but in this case you can still make par after hitting it there.

[Jeff Ober]

The real key is, if you're going to miss left, miss WAAAYYYY left.  Like Spieth on Friday.  That's next level strategery.   

[jeffwarne]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

I'd say Jordan Spieth and Xander Schauffele could provide some insight on that...
Ironically, the guy who made 2 to win drove it out of position, but hit a heck of a shot.

[Kalen Braley]

I like it: 

1) Its not a short par 4 where its "Drive if it you dare".  With plenty of room and safer routes to play to get on or close, its almost like you can't not go for it, especially if you're a top notch pro.
2)  Its placement in the round is perfect.  Some big numbers can be had and some low ones.
3)  If you want to make it tough, use that back left portion of the green and it will get everyone's attention and force a decision back on the tee.

My only quibble is the location of the fairway bunkers.   I'd get rid of the two bigger ones on the right and shift the centerline one a bit further right and closer to the green to get players thinking more about perhaps taking a line closer to the water.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I've only played it twice but 17 is less daunting for someone like me who can't reach the water of the tee. The second shot can be fun but for me it is just a short par four. I know I won't make more than 4.


For the pros it comes at a point where they can make 2 and feel like they absolutely must make a 3. It is probably more exciting for them.

[Rob Marshall]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

I'd say Jordan Spieth and Xander Schauffele could provide some insight on that...
Ironically, the guy who made 2 to win drove it out of position, but hit a heck of a shot.

Spieth hit a great drive when he needed it on 17 and it rolls thru the middle of the green and into the water. Can’t say that’s a great hole to me. Fun to watch but not so much to play in that situation.

[Peter Pallotta]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

I'd say Jordan Spieth and Xander Schauffele could provide some insight on that...
Ironically, the guy who made 2 to win drove it out of position, but hit a heck of a shot.

When you can still make a 2 -- even if it takes a heck of a shot to do it -- maybe it was not so much out of position.
Ironically, that's why I liked watching them play it: it's a touch quixotic (for lack of a better word).
Normally I'm meh about these kinds of short 4s -- I can take them or leave them (either watching on tv or playing them myself). Many of them might as well have banners stretched across the tee box that read "This is the Risk-Reward Hole". Here both risk & reward seem more, well, quixotic (you know)

[Eric LeFante]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone lay up on the hole so it takes some intrigue away for me and just makes it a tough par 3. I heard Brandel says it’s the best short par 4 in golf. 10 at Riviera and 3 at Augusta are significantly better in my opinion because players actually have to make a choice on the tee and a variety of clubs are used off the tee.

[David_Elvins]

Spieth hit a great drive when he needed it on 17 and it rolls thru the middle of the green and into the water. Can’t say that’s a great hole to me. Fun to watch but not so much to play in that situation.

It was a 20 yard ropey hook.  Not sure that's a great drive to that green.

[mike_malone]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

I'd say Jordan Spieth and Xander Schauffele could provide some insight on that...
Ironically, the guy who made 2 to win drove it out of position, but hit a heck of a shot.

Spieth hit a great drive when he needed it on 17 and it rolls thru the middle of the green and into the water. Can’t say that’s a great hole to me. Fun to watch but not so much to play in that situation.

He hit too much of a draw.


I see David took care of my light work. Hello ,David. 

[Pat Burke]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

I'd say Jordan Spieth and Xander Schauffele could provide some insight on that...
Ironically, the guy who made 2 to win drove it out of position, but hit a heck of a shot.

Spieth hit a great drive when he needed it on 17 and it rolls thru the middle of the green and into the water. Can’t say that’s a great hole to me. Fun to watch but not so much to play in that situation.

His reaction when he hit that tee shot seemed like he was worried
Considering the talk of how little the ball curves, that had some serious right to left on it imo

[David_Elvins]

My thoughts on the hole. I think its close to the best pro golf hole on the world although I think I like it a little better when the centreline bunker is more in play.

[Joe Zucker]

The decision on what to hit may not change often or be much of a decision at all, but there is still strategy on where to hit it.  Bailing out right does not leave an easy shot, so there is still some reward with a better angle if you're closer to the water.  However, it shows how cautious pro golfers are in how much respect they give to hazards with most players leaving it out right and attempting to make 3 from there.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Spieth hit a great drive when he needed it on 17

It wasn't a great drive. He said afterward he toed it, too.

[Pete_Pittock]

Great hole when the hole is cut back right (like Sunday) or back left. More mundane with front and center locations. With a left pin if you play defensively from the tee, the approach seems infinitely harder. I would rather spectate 17th than 16th

[Jeff Schley]

We continually talk about how great greens make for great courses, this green is very benign and generous, yet everyone is saying how great of a hole it is.  Maybe we need to consider the strategy of a hole slightly more in our perspectives as opposed to putting so much weight on the greens.  IMHO

• It is a great hole for all golfers if played from the right tee, as you can have a go to knock it on as a mid capper as well. That is always fun. The pin placement is what will make some go or no go, which is almost like a long par 3.
• For the pros in this tournament the placement of it as the penultimate hole adds to the intrigue. They can go 2 or 6 very easily and as a fan, who wouldn't love that?
• I think of it like hole 9 at TOC as you have bail out right and trouble left with a huge flat green. The different is the back left pin placement on TPC and water left.
• For pros I love the water as it gives them a true penalty for being too greedy if they don't execute.
• This hole is nowhere near the green complex of Riviera 10th in terms of complexity or bunkering. I give the nod to 10th at Riviera for the green is a complex maze and angled as well.

So while a great hole IMO to watch for pro golf, the 10th at Riviera is the pinnacle still.

[David_Elvins]

We continually talk about how great greens make for great courses, this green is very benign and generous,

I think there are some areas of the green and surrounds that are reasonably severe.

[Rob Marshall]

Its fun to play but I see very little incentive to not go for it. I think it's a good pro golf hole and the green shape is cool, but why not hit driver? I've hit it every time

I'd say Jordan Spieth and Xander Schauffele could provide some insight on that...
Ironically, the guy who made 2 to win drove it out of position, but hit a heck of a shot.

Spieth hit a great drive when he needed it on 17 and it rolls thru the middle of the green and into the water. Can’t say that’s a great hole to me. Fun to watch but not so much to play in that situation.

His reaction when he hit that tee shot seemed like he was worried
Considering the talk of how little the ball curves, that had some serious right to left on it imo

Pat, agree it had a little too much curve on it but it started in the middle of green to the right of the pin. Just carried a little to far. It was on the green for a LOOOOG time before getting to shaved down bank.

[Rob Marshall]

Spieth hit a great drive when he needed it on 17

It wasn't a great drive. He said afterward he toed it, too.

Yeah, it sucked. The hole is listed at 333. The ball landed just short of the middle of the green. It was terrible. What was I thinking. Maybe you should work with him. You could be the answer.