[Mark_Fine]

Here is a simple exercise that might prove to be very helpful and if nothing else informative to all of us interested in GCA. I realize it is not the best time of the year for many to do this but when you can, borrow a soil probe from the superintendent at the club/course you play most often. He or she will definitely have one and be impressed you are asking (and maybe even join you). Go out to a greenside bunker you know gets a lot of play (front right is often a good one) and take some soil probes.  Note the depth of the bunker and then take a probe just outside the top of the bunker and take a few more working your way into the green and make note of the differences. Replace each plug when you are done measuring and/or photographing this way you will leave no trace.  If you find the results interesting you might do this with multiple bunkers and record your findings.  It would also help to know when the last time there was work done on the bunkers you probed or on the green surface.  If you have the time you might even check the depth of sand in the middle of those bunkers.  If we get enough people to do this exercise and share results it might be helpful for GCA since it doesn’t sound like this is done too often.

At Bethlehem we had one front right bunker that had 2 1/2 feet of sand build up at the top of the bunker and that tapered down to about 6 inches or so 8-10 feet into the green surface.  I will try to get some measurements from Brookside but that might be awhile as we have heavy snow cover and more on the way. 

Just an idea that I thought might be interesting and eye opening one way or the other. 

[Tom_Doak]

Result = 7 inches of snow.


Might want to post this idea in spring or summer!

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
I was thinking the same.  But there are people in warmer areas so we will see but spring or summer probably a better time.  It will be interesting to see what people find. 

[Matt MacIver]

I don’t need a probe, our bunkers are 2 inches of sand and then Billy bunkers concrete. Someone owes me a new wedge.

[Rick Lane]

We have 90 year old Tillinghast greens.  I would love to do this with just one green, probe all the way around it at maybe 3 foot intervals, and document the findings.  My idea would be to then spray a line.....red means this area is 2 feet or more elevated, yellow means one to 2 feet, and green means less than one foot.   I think the resulting multicolored circle would be incredibly informative to the members.   We love to tell ourselves that no one has touched these greens (except mowing lines expanded to the “wings”), but as this thread points out, sand splash has likely greatly changed the slopes around the edges and taken away pin positions.   


I can’t see us spending the money to undo the changes on all 18 greens, but we do have a few that have very limited pin locations due to slope and greens speeds above about 9.5. 

[Jim Sherma]

Mark - I'm interested as to which green at Bethlehem you're referring to. The likeliest candidate is 7, which you did take the big knob off of the front bunker. Other candidates for most splash impact would be: right bunker on 3, front bunker on 6, front bunkers on 14 and 15.

[Mark_Fine]

Matt,
Yes that can be a problem with those liners, when there is not much sand they can be tough of clubs 


Rick,
It would be very interesting to see what you discover.  I will be anxious to hear about your results.  A lot of times old green side bunkers tend to separate from the fill pads that they were originally tucked up against.  Has any of that occurred at your course?  Basically the bunker shrinks in size. 


Jim,
Yes the example I gave was on #7.  The shoulder behind that bunker extended well into the green to the point where there was almost no place to put a pin on the entire right side.  We pulled that bunker forward, removed all that sand and expanded the green in the process.  I think it now looks and plays fantastic.  We had this issue on the other bunkers you mentioned plus numerous more.  The par three 4th for example had similar amounts of sand build up on both the left and right bunkers.  It had become the hardest hole on the golf course with very few hole locations.  We made some big changes on that hole. 

[Rick Lane]

Mark, I’m not the Super nor an Architect, just a lurker here that loves learning from you guys.  At our old course, Brooklawn in CT, Ron Forse and Jim Nagle did a wonderful job of “restoring” our bunkers using aerials from 1931 and 1932 as a guide.  So if there was separation there, it’s not there now!  And they helped us understand where the green edges were 90 years ago, which has dramatically changed our greens complexes for the better, mowing lines brought out to the sloped wings.   It is wonderful even just to look at.   And like the other thread about old greens, we have quite the potpourri of grasses after 90 years!   


I will make quite the effort with our committee and Super to try to really understand the evolution in just one green, not to drive change, but just to drive understanding.   

[Mark_Fine]

Rick,
When they "restored" the bunkers, do you know if they touched any of the greens (particularly the edges near the green side bunkers) during the process?  It would help to know but either way it will be fun to see what you find out.  Likely have to wait till spring because a lot more snow is coming.  I have two projects completely snowed under but it is winter. 

[Rick Lane]

They were very deliberate about not touching the greens except to show us new mowing lines.  It’s a huge point of pride that the club can say these 18 Tliinghast greens have not been touched intentionally.   But as this thread highlights, there is 90 years of sand splash and other practices that for sure have changed them since 1931. 


I don’t know if Jim Nagle still lurks here, but he can chime in!


Fwiw, the Women’s Sr, Open is there this summer, will be some tv time I presume.....

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