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Steve Kohler

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Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« on: January 25, 2021, 04:36:09 PM »
As the grey of winter persists and the pro tours tease us with blue skies and warm temps, I thought a post in the style of TD’s Confidential Guide would be a fun distraction.  I’m focused on the area I know best – the Greater Cincinnati region (with a few select outliers).  I realize my list is mostly focused on the area’s private courses; it has been a long time since I’ve played many of the publics and didn’t feel I could do them much justice in my comments.  Feel free to chime in, copy for other regions and/or quickly relegate to the second page of the discussion board.
 
Camargo Club
The only true blueblood in the region, featuring wonderful Raynor templates on a piece of secluded parkland.  The par 3’s get all of the attention (although the Biarritz is a little underwhelming), but the par 4’s are equally strong.  I especially like the short 3rd, Alps/Punchbowl 7th, and Maiden 16th.  The clubhouse has a graceful, old-school charm as well, with its small locker room and patio immediately adjacent to the 10th tee.  The course will be undergoing renovations in 2022 to bring back more of its original Raynor roots.

Kenwood CC
A 36-hole club with a large clubhouse and bustling social scene.  Kendale (historically the men’s course) is a serviceable Bill Diddel design that has undergone some recent tree clearing and bunker renovations for the better.  The other course, Kenview, is strange - routed over some severe terrain with a few head scratching holes.  In an alternate universe, they would raze the existing courses and build 27 excellent holes.
 
Wyoming GC
This is my home club and I have a soft spot for this 9-hole Tom Bendelow course tucked in the quiet, leafy suburb of Wyoming.  It’s a compact property with a creek coming into play on 6 holes, and several other holes built up and back down a large hillside.  There are multiple standout holes, capped off by the 130-yard 9th/18th, where the golfer tees off from the front door of the clubhouse to a small, two-tiered green guarded by the aforementioned creek and several bunkers.  The course needs a tree management program and to reverse some stylistic choices from a 1980s renovation, but it holds up favorably to almost any 18-hole competitor in the area.
 
Losantiville CC
This historically Jewish club, designed by Tom Bendelow, has a tight routing over a very hilly property and some of the smallest, most severely tilted greens in the city.  The 9th hole, with encroaching trees and an overgrown runoff ditch squeezing the driving zone, is among my least favorite holes in the area. The club has a serious issue with tree overgrowth, to the point that several holes are nothing more than narrow chutes off the tee (#13, most egregiously).  The club has done some recent clearing, but there is still much work to be done.
 
Maketewah CC
The course claims Donald Ross heritage, but several architects have touched it over the years to the point I’m not sure how much Ross is really in the ground.  There are a handful of strong holes (including the par-3 9th and 18th holes) and several bad holes (#’s 3, 4, 8 and 10).  They put in an impressive indoor practice facility and short game area a few years ago to lure the Xavier University golf program.  The membership here skews toward the better player and has an active social scene.  It might be the membership vibe you want, but the course could leave you desiring more.
 
Coldstream CC
This Dick Wilson course sits on a wooded piece of property and is currently undergoing an extensive renovation by Keith Foster.  As the old design stood, it was classic Dick Wilson: filled with long, hard par-4s and all the par-3s playing over water.  It is a pleasant walk, but not much else of note besides the sheer size of the greens like the 60-yard-deep 18th green.  Hopefully good things are to come with Foster’s oversight.
 
Clovernook CC
A Langford and Moreau original routed over a tight, rectangular property.  The bones of an excellent course lurk under years of impeding tree growth.  Most of the green sites are noteworthy for their internal movement, runoff areas and well-placed bunkers. I particularly like the par-4 7th, par-3 8th and bunkerless par-4 13th.  The long par-3 14th is one of the few weak spots, with a green that is so severely tilted it only has two small pinnable areas (the very front or a far back shelf).  Quite possibly the most underrated course in the area and a great lesson in routing on a small property.
 
Heritage Club
As far as housing development tracks go, this PB Dye course is one of the better and tougher ones in the area.  This course is not for the timid player, with water lurking in many places and an (over)abundance of bunkers.  I particularly like the par-5 5th with a cape-like tee shot and the short, tight par-4 11th.  The awkward 17th hole, with a 90-degree dogleg roughly 250yds from the tee, is the biggest letdown.  Hopefully, a master plan done by Andy Staples will be implemented and further improve the course’s strategic design and playability for higher handicaps.
 
Four Bridges CC
Directly across the street from Heritage Club, this Bob Cupp design is routed through a denser housing development than its neighbor.  Stylistically, it is also much different with extensive use of sandy waste areas that look out of place in Ohio.  There are a couple interesting double greens, most notably the huge 9th/18th featuring a large bathtub depression that funnels balls down into the center of it.  Other holes are tightly routed through housing corridors and blend together easily.
 
Western Hills CC
Another Tom Bendelow design in the western suburbs.  As with many older courses in the area, it would be a terrific candidate for a “memorial stump” program.  Some of the holes have clearly been redesigned over the years and don’t match the character of the rest of the course.  Overall, it is a decent track, especially given the dearth of quality options on the west side of the city.  It is directly in the approach path of the airport, so be prepared for jets rattling overhead all day.
 
Oasis GC
A mostly forgettable Arnold Palmer design routed through a housing development.  Its “signature” closing stretch of 16-17-18 is memorable mostly for the danger of water present on every shot. 
 
Hyde Park CC
A solid Donald Ross track, fixed up by Tim Liddy in the 2010s.  The course has some interesting landforms it navigates over without resorting to gimmicks.  The fairways are all zoysia, which takes some acclimation compared to the bentgrass prevalent throughout the region.  One of the better options in the area if you have access.

Moraine CC
Located in Dayton, a short drive north of Cincinnati, this course is one of my favorites in the region and gets a special shout out here.  Built in the 1920s by local professional “Nipper” Campbell, and masterfully restored by Keith Foster in the 2010s, this course has incredible land movement up and over landforms shaped by a glacial moraine.  The holes navigating the hillside are the strongest, but even the holes on the flat section of property have enough interest to keep your attention.  Along with Camargo, this is the other “must play” in the region.
 
Summit Hills CC
It is a mystery how a state so rich with rolling farmland (Kentucky) has so few high-quality golf courses.  You will still be searching after visiting this course that, while not offensive, never shows you much to excite.

Traditions GC
Perhaps the best of your options in the Northern Kentucky area, this golf-only club still doesn’t quite rise to the occasion.  It can be a long, tough course routed over rolling hills, but the artificial mounding and pedestrian green sites prevent it from living up to its full potential.

Triple Crown CC
A prototypical subdivision course in a booming area of Northern Kentucky.  This track has all the hallmarks of a 1980’s housing development including generous use of mounds to frame fairways and the requisite manmade ponds with lovely fountains.  In my handful of plays the conditioning has always been wanting and the pace of play slow.

Aston Oaks
This public Nicklaus Design course never actually had Jack onsite, and it shows.  It’s routed on some severe topography on the city’s far west side and sports a handful of green-to-tee transitions measured in the hundreds of yards.  The short par-4 12th has a commanding hilltop view along the Ohio River, but condos closely line the hole’s right side and signage on the tee forbids hitting driver.  Elsewhere, power transmission lines run overhead on the par-5 8th and trees severely restrict the airspace on the short, dropshot par-3 15th.

Stonelick Hills
The best public option in the area, this course is a one-off, designed by the founder of a regional restaurant chain with no previous golf design experience.  Despite the lack of experience, the course presents a lot of fun, strategic holes routed through an alternately wooded environment back into open farmland.  The long distances between some holes make it a cart-only affair, but there is plenty to like here.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2021, 04:43:14 PM »
What is the public course that overlooks the cooling towers of a power plant that is as hilly as any course I have ever played.

Chris_Blakely

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2021, 05:17:59 PM »
What is the public course that overlooks the cooling towers of a power plant that is as hilly as any course I have ever played.


Shawnee Lookout is the course I believe you are referring.  The course closed last year.


Chris


John Kavanaugh

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2021, 05:21:18 PM »
What is the public course that overlooks the cooling towers of a power plant that is as hilly as any course I have ever played.


Shawnee Lookout is the course I believe you are referring.  The course closed last year.


Chris


That's it! I now recall it's demise.

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2021, 05:28:50 PM »
Thanks for the overview! What about Cincinnati CC?

Steve Lang

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2021, 10:48:26 PM »
 8)  Steve,


Nice listing, suggest you at least list the regional publics..  When I was at UC (1970-77) we used to play Avon Fields a lot because it was close and cheap, to Sharon Woods to go big, and splurge going to up to Hueston Woods as it was new and fun to hang in Oxford.  Golf was pure then using 3-5-7-9 - SW, P, D, 3W, & 4W, and always an adventure hike.... Bright Moments indeed remembering my economically limited golf in Cinti!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2021, 11:33:11 PM »
Thanks for the overview! What about Cincinnati CC?


Weird as hell. Tight, funky, hilly, lots of people playing as singles in carts before putting out and heading for one of the club's many other and more noteworthy amenities. Maybe the only course I've ever played where each of the first two greens slope front-to-back. Awesome par 5s but maybe not in a good way. Good variety of par 3s and at least one of them is definitely a legitimately good hole. I enjoy the course. Some people would question my sanity after reading the previous sentence. Incredible club.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Paul Rudovsky

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2021, 02:48:54 AM »
Steve--


Surprised you left out Terrace Park, but certainly not surprised that Jack Nicklaus Sports Center was excluded.  Interesting that you included Moraine (not exactly convenient to Cincinnati) and did not include NCR-South next door.  I agree that Moraine the far superior of the two.




JLahrman

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2021, 09:24:24 AM »
8)  Steve,

Nice listing, suggest you at least list the regional publics..  When I was at UC (1970-77) we used to play Avon Fields a lot because it was close and cheap, to Sharon Woods to go big, and splurge going to up to Hueston Woods as it was new and fun to hang in Oxford.  Golf was pure then using 3-5-7-9 - SW, P, D, 3W, & 4W, and always an adventure hike.... Bright Moments indeed remembering my economically limited golf in Cinti!



I grew up playing Sharon Woods, it is still a fun place to play (or at least was 10 years ago, the last time I was there).

Steve Kohler

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2021, 09:37:09 AM »
I only included courses I have played within and the last few years and felt I could provide some thoughtful insight on.  There's a handful of other public courses I thought about including but couldn't conjure up much meaningful commentary.  I invite others to fill in any gaps and/or expand on my thoughts.

This is an area sorely lacking quality public tracks (compared to other Midwest cities like Cleveland and Indy).  I would probably group some of the public options as such:

Best Options
Stonelick Hills
Blue Ash Golf Course
Elks Run
Belterra

You Won't Be Offended
Avon Fields
Sharon Woods
Glenview
Hueston Woods
Rising Star

Only Go if They're Paying You
Reeves
Devou Park

Brian Finn

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2021, 09:59:44 AM »
There are two courses in Cincinnati where, if I am invited, I drop everything and go.

Camargo
Avon Fields
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Jason Thurman

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2021, 10:50:44 AM »
I only included courses I have played within and the last few years and felt I could provide some thoughtful insight on.  There's a handful of other public courses I thought about including but couldn't conjure up much meaningful commentary.  I invite others to fill in any gaps and/or expand on my thoughts.

This is an area sorely lacking quality public tracks (compared to other Midwest cities like Cleveland and Indy).  I would probably group some of the public options as such:

Best Options
Stonelick Hills
Blue Ash Golf Course
Elks Run
Belterra

You Won't Be Offended
Avon Fields
Sharon Woods
Glenview
Hueston Woods
Rising Star

Only Go if They're Paying You
Reeves
Devou Park


I'd quibble with some of the groupings above, but Cincinnati public golf does indeed suck in the aggregate. Really, the private scene isn't much better when you consider how we compare with comparable cities.


I really enjoy Stonelick as a collection of holes. The routing is ridiculous but ultimately I agree that it's tops in the public category.


I also enjoy Sharon Woods, which has a nice variety of holes leading to uninspiring greens in a beautiful setting. I would heartily recommend Avon Fields to someone who likes old quirky short courses, but only at this time of year when you have a chance to finish your round on the par 66 in less than 5 hours. I played Indian Ridge in Oxford for the first time a couple years ago and really enjoyed it. I might rate it above Stonelick overall, but it's pretty far out of town. Likewise for Belterra, which I find to be a perfectly acceptable round of cartball in a sterile but pleasant enough setting.


Really, the county-owned municipal courses have generally left me satisfied. The Mill Course is weird but fun, Miami-Whitewater is pretty damn enjoyable if overcrowded, and Vineyard could use a lot of chainsaw work but delivers some interesting golf on a pretty tough piece of property. I regret that I didn't play Shawnee Lookout before it closed.


My personal ratings (limiting to courses I've played):
I'd clear my schedule now if I could play
Camargo

I'd cancel plans on Friday to play
Hyde Park

I play my most of my golf at
Miami View

I'd consider ditching my usual Saturday AM game to take an invite to
Stonelick Hills
Clovernook
Indian Ridge

I'll happily play it with good company
Sharon Woods
Heritage Club
Avon Fields
Maketewah
Losantiville
Cincinnati CC
Miami Whitewater
Vineyard
The Mill Course
Lassing Pointe

I'll play it in an outing if it gets me out of work
Blue Ash
Elks Run
Aston Oaks
Anything at the Kenton County Complex...

The course sucks but has two or three holes that contend for the best in the city
Devou Park

Courses I love that are not in Cincinnati but worth thinking about if you're in Cincinnati, given that Cincinnati's golf scene is bad enough that your best option might be to leave town altogether
Moraine
Otter Creek
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2021, 10:56:59 AM »
Some edits from me, and note that I haven't played any golf in Cincinnati for about 10 years, so my categorizations depend on course conditions and tree removal status (or lack thereof).

Also note that while the public golf in Cincinnati isn't great, it also isn't expensive either (to my recollection)

Best Options
Stonelick Hills
Blue Ash Golf Course
Elks Run
Belterra

You Won't Be Offended
Avon Fields
Sharon Woods
Glenview
Hueston Woods
Rising Star
added - Miami Whitewater
added - Vineyard (though it desperately needed a chain saw 15 years ago)
added - Shaker Run
added - Mill Course

Only Go if They're Paying You
Reeves
Devou Park
added - Hickory Woods, though I do have a soft spot for it
added - California

Matthew Sander

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2021, 02:37:15 PM »
Some edits from me, and note that I haven't played any golf in Cincinnati for about 10 years, so my categorizations depend on course conditions and tree removal status (or lack thereof).

Also note that while the public golf in Cincinnati isn't great, it also isn't expensive either (to my recollection)

Best Options
Stonelick Hills
Blue Ash Golf Course
Elks Run
Belterra

You Won't Be Offended
Avon Fields
Sharon Woods
Glenview
Hueston Woods
Rising Star
added - Miami Whitewater
added - Vineyard (though it desperately needed a chain saw 15 years ago)
added - Shaker Run
added - Mill Course

Only Go if They're Paying You
Reeves
Devou Park
added - Hickory Woods, though I do have a soft spot for it
added - California


Surprised that yours is the first mention of Shaker Run. We’ve only lived in the greater Cincinnati area for 4 years, but growing up in the area and having family connections nearby, I was able to stay fairly connected to the local golf goings on.


If I’m not mistaken, there was a time before the bursting of the golf bubble when Shaker was the local “it” public course. I understand it has gone through some really tough times but has rebounded a bit recently. New(ish) ownership?


At its best, as a collection of holes, it rivals Stonelick in my mind. It also has some clumsiness in the routing and is primarily a cartball course. Also, the encroachment from some of the recent home/condo construction is laughable. That said, for the $$, and given the relatively poor options in the area, you could do a lot worse. Lord, that is faint praise indeed! On the other hand, drive a couple hours northwest to Indy or 80 minutes south to Lexington, and you’ll have plenty of quality public options.

Steve Kohler

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2021, 04:09:25 PM »
Shaker Run
The original 18 holes, by Arthur Hills, had some interest but were severely lacking in maintenance at the time of my last visit.  The 3rd nine, added later in a money grab, is an abomination lined with cookie-cutter apartments and homes.  My understanding is that they've begun to backfill homesites onto the original 18 holes as well.


In one of my all-time miserable experiences on a golf course, I got roped into playing an outing here years ago where they double loaded all 27 holes.  My group drove off the course around the 6 hour mark with 3 holes still remaining.  I still cringe thinking about it.

Matthew Sander

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2021, 04:27:37 PM »
Shaker Run
The original 18 holes, by Arthur Hills, had some interest but were severely lacking in maintenance at the time of my last visit.  The 3rd nine, added later in a money grab, is an abomination lined with cookie-cutter apartments and homes.  My understanding is that they've begun to backfill homesites onto the original 18 holes as well.


In one of my all-time miserable experiences on a golf course, I got roped into playing an outing here years ago where they double loaded all 27 holes.  My group drove off the course around the 6 hour mark with 3 holes still remaining.  I still cringe thinking about it.


Can’t imagine why you don’t have it in a lofty position on your list! Yes, the homesites have really begun to encroach awkwardly on the original 18. My understanding is that overall course maintenance and conditions have improved in the last year or two. I haven’t seen it recently enough to weigh in. I find the collection of holes to be fine, nowhere near outstanding. Unfortunately, that is good enough to get a mention locally.

JLahrman

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2021, 04:59:58 PM »
Surprised that yours is the first mention of Shaker Run. We’ve only lived in the greater Cincinnati area for 4 years, but growing up in the area and having family connections nearby, I was able to stay fairly connected to the local golf goings on.

If I’m not mistaken, there was a time before the bursting of the golf bubble when Shaker was the local “it” public course. I understand it has gone through some really tough times but has rebounded a bit recently. New(ish) ownership?

At its best, as a collection of holes, it rivals Stonelick in my mind. It also has some clumsiness in the routing and is primarily a cartball course. Also, the encroachment from some of the recent home/condo construction is laughable. That said, for the $$, and given the relatively poor options in the area, you could do a lot worse. Lord, that is faint praise indeed! On the other hand, drive a couple hours northwest to Indy or 80 minutes south to Lexington, and you’ll have plenty of quality public options.



Yes it was definitely the it course maybe 25 years ago, and it hosted the Publinx the year Michelle Wie was trying to win it to qualify for the Masters. I played it a couple of times and was very underwhelmed, and this is before I had ever heard of GCA (though working at Scioto and Camargo may have biased me). It was quite expensive for what I considered not a better course than the cheaper area publics I had been playing my whole life. I would rather have gone to play Weatherwax (RIP) or Walden Ponds which was a less expensive but better CCFAD.

Matthew Sander

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2021, 06:00:53 PM »
Surprised that yours is the first mention of Shaker Run. We’ve only lived in the greater Cincinnati area for 4 years, but growing up in the area and having family connections nearby, I was able to stay fairly connected to the local golf goings on.

If I’m not mistaken, there was a time before the bursting of the golf bubble when Shaker was the local “it” public course. I understand it has gone through some really tough times but has rebounded a bit recently. New(ish) ownership?

At its best, as a collection of holes, it rivals Stonelick in my mind. It also has some clumsiness in the routing and is primarily a cartball course. Also, the encroachment from some of the recent home/condo construction is laughable. That said, for the $$, and given the relatively poor options in the area, you could do a lot worse. Lord, that is faint praise indeed! On the other hand, drive a couple hours northwest to Indy or 80 minutes south to Lexington, and you’ll have plenty of quality public options.



Yes it was definitely the it course maybe 25 years ago, and it hosted the Publinx the year Michelle Wie was trying to win it to qualify for the Masters. I played it a couple of times and was very underwhelmed, and this is before I had ever heard of GCA (though working at Scioto and Camargo may have biased me). It was quite expensive for what I considered not a better course than the cheaper area publics I had been playing my whole life. I would rather have gone to play Weatherwax (RIP) or Walden Ponds which was a less expensive but better CCFAD.


No quibble here. Personally, I think I most enjoy a round at Sharon Woods among Cincy area publics. No great shakes, but that is the local reality.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2021, 09:24:30 AM »
No quibble here. Personally, I think I most enjoy a round at Sharon Woods among Cincy area publics. No great shakes, but that is the local reality.


I agree with this. Sharon Woods is a charming golf course and I always enjoy the experience of playing it. Great muni vibe. I don't know if a tourist should go out of their way to play it, but if your goal is to play a round of golf rather than to "appreciate the architecture," I think you'll practically never go wrong at Sharon Woods.


As for Shaker Run, I just don't like it. It has some half decent holes and I generally think the original 18 routes through a very pleasant setting (I've never played the Hurdzan Condo Nine). But for me, the better holes don't excite me nearly enough to make up for four or five that I just find absolutely atrocious. When I think "worst holes I've ever played," 6 on Woodlands jumps to mind immediately. It's quickly followed by 3, 5, and 7. The stretch 5-7 on Woodlands might literally be my least favorite 3 hole stretch in golf. The Lakeside nine is more or less perfectly mediocre, but I have a hard time coming up with a hole to look forward to that will get the taste of the shitty ones out of my mouth.


My reaction might be uniquely excessive, as I have a history of failing to appreciate Art.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Steve Lang

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2021, 10:29:50 AM »
 8)  Frank discussion is one thing, but it seems golf is very depressing to some folks living on the 7 hills of Cinti...  Its a big city and lots of regional demand, but certainly not as bad as some locales...


Anyone ever played Fairfield Greens South?  A working man's venue...
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

JLahrman

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2021, 11:24:02 AM »
8)  Frank discussion is one thing, but it seems golf is very depressing to some folks living on the 7 hills of Cinti...  Its a big city and lots of regional demand, but certainly not as bad as some locales...

Anyone ever played Fairfield Greens South?  A working man's venue...



I agree...if your goal is to play some really top quality public courses then you'll be disappointed. Go to Indianapolis or Michigan instead. And apart from Camargo there aren't any crčme de la crčme privates, though there are some good underrated courses. It's not a golf destination, for sure. But there are a lot of OK publics that are priced very affordably. And the privates aren't going to break the bank. So while it's not going to be a GCA buddy trip destination, for those people who live there it's a place where there are decent options at affordable prices. The courses serve the community pretty well although they're never going to rank high on any of the lists that people here like to argue about.

Chris_Blakely

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2021, 01:50:53 PM »
As the grey of winter persists and the pro tours tease us with blue skies and warm temps, I thought a post in the style of TD’s Confidential Guide would be a fun distraction.  I’m focused on the area I know best – the Greater Cincinnati region (with a few select outliers).  I realize my list is mostly focused on the area’s private courses; it has been a long time since I’ve played many of the publics and didn’t feel I could do them much justice in my comments.  Feel free to chime in, copy for other regions and/or quickly relegate to the second page of the discussion board.
 
Camargo Club
The only true blueblood in the region, featuring wonderful Raynor templates on a piece of secluded parkland.  The par 3’s get all of the attention (although the Biarritz is a little underwhelming), but the par 4’s are equally strong.  I especially like the short 3rd, Alps/Punchbowl 7th, and Maiden 16th.  The clubhouse has a graceful, old-school charm as well, with its small locker room and patio immediately adjacent to the 10th tee.  The course will be undergoing renovations in 2022 to bring back more of its original Raynor roots.

Kenwood CC
A 36-hole club with a large clubhouse and bustling social scene.  Kendale (historically the men’s course) is a serviceable Bill Diddel design that has undergone some recent tree clearing and bunker renovations for the better.  The other course, Kenview, is strange - routed over some severe terrain with a few head scratching holes.  In an alternate universe, they would raze the existing courses and build 27 excellent holes.
 
Wyoming GC
This is my home club and I have a soft spot for this 9-hole Tom Bendelow course tucked in the quiet, leafy suburb of Wyoming.  It’s a compact property with a creek coming into play on 6 holes, and several other holes built up and back down a large hillside.  There are multiple standout holes, capped off by the 130-yard 9th/18th, where the golfer tees off from the front door of the clubhouse to a small, two-tiered green guarded by the aforementioned creek and several bunkers.  The course needs a tree management program and to reverse some stylistic choices from a 1980s renovation, but it holds up favorably to almost any 18-hole competitor in the area.
 
Losantiville CC
This historically Jewish club, designed by Tom Bendelow, has a tight routing over a very hilly property and some of the smallest, most severely tilted greens in the city.  The 9th hole, with encroaching trees and an overgrown runoff ditch squeezing the driving zone, is among my least favorite holes in the area. The club has a serious issue with tree overgrowth, to the point that several holes are nothing more than narrow chutes off the tee (#13, most egregiously).  The club has done some recent clearing, but there is still much work to be done.
 
Maketewah CC
The course claims Donald Ross heritage, but several architects have touched it over the years to the point I’m not sure how much Ross is really in the ground.  There are a handful of strong holes (including the par-3 9th and 18th holes) and several bad holes (#’s 3, 4, 8 and 10).  They put in an impressive indoor practice facility and short game area a few years ago to lure the Xavier University golf program.  The membership here skews toward the better player and has an active social scene.  It might be the membership vibe you want, but the course could leave you desiring more.
 
Coldstream CC
This Dick Wilson course sits on a wooded piece of property and is currently undergoing an extensive renovation by Keith Foster.  As the old design stood, it was classic Dick Wilson: filled with long, hard par-4s and all the par-3s playing over water.  It is a pleasant walk, but not much else of note besides the sheer size of the greens like the 60-yard-deep 18th green.  Hopefully good things are to come with Foster’s oversight.
 
Clovernook CC
A Langford and Moreau original routed over a tight, rectangular property.  The bones of an excellent course lurk under years of impeding tree growth.  Most of the green sites are noteworthy for their internal movement, runoff areas and well-placed bunkers. I particularly like the par-4 7th, par-3 8th and bunkerless par-4 13th.  The long par-3 14th is one of the few weak spots, with a green that is so severely tilted it only has two small pinnable areas (the very front or a far back shelf).  Quite possibly the most underrated course in the area and a great lesson in routing on a small property.
 
Heritage Club
As far as housing development tracks go, this PB Dye course is one of the better and tougher ones in the area.  This course is not for the timid player, with water lurking in many places and an (over)abundance of bunkers.  I particularly like the par-5 5th with a cape-like tee shot and the short, tight par-4 11th.  The awkward 17th hole, with a 90-degree dogleg roughly 250yds from the tee, is the biggest letdown.  Hopefully, a master plan done by Andy Staples will be implemented and further improve the course’s strategic design and playability for higher handicaps.
 
Four Bridges CC
Directly across the street from Heritage Club, this Bob Cupp design is routed through a denser housing development than its neighbor.  Stylistically, it is also much different with extensive use of sandy waste areas that look out of place in Ohio.  There are a couple interesting double greens, most notably the huge 9th/18th featuring a large bathtub depression that funnels balls down into the center of it.  Other holes are tightly routed through housing corridors and blend together easily.
 
Western Hills CC
Another Tom Bendelow design in the western suburbs.  As with many older courses in the area, it would be a terrific candidate for a “memorial stump” program.  Some of the holes have clearly been redesigned over the years and don’t match the character of the rest of the course.  Overall, it is a decent track, especially given the dearth of quality options on the west side of the city.  It is directly in the approach path of the airport, so be prepared for jets rattling overhead all day.
 
Oasis GC
A mostly forgettable Arnold Palmer design routed through a housing development.  Its “signature” closing stretch of 16-17-18 is memorable mostly for the danger of water present on every shot. 
 
Hyde Park CC
A solid Donald Ross track, fixed up by Tim Liddy in the 2010s.  The course has some interesting landforms it navigates over without resorting to gimmicks.  The fairways are all zoysia, which takes some acclimation compared to the bentgrass prevalent throughout the region.  One of the better options in the area if you have access.

Moraine CC
Located in Dayton, a short drive north of Cincinnati, this course is one of my favorites in the region and gets a special shout out here.  Built in the 1920s by local professional “Nipper” Campbell, and masterfully restored by Keith Foster in the 2010s, this course has incredible land movement up and over landforms shaped by a glacial moraine.  The holes navigating the hillside are the strongest, but even the holes on the flat section of property have enough interest to keep your attention.  Along with Camargo, this is the other “must play” in the region.
 
Summit Hills CC
It is a mystery how a state so rich with rolling farmland (Kentucky) has so few high-quality golf courses.  You will still be searching after visiting this course that, while not offensive, never shows you much to excite.

Traditions GC
Perhaps the best of your options in the Northern Kentucky area, this golf-only club still doesn’t quite rise to the occasion.  It can be a long, tough course routed over rolling hills, but the artificial mounding and pedestrian green sites prevent it from living up to its full potential.

Triple Crown CC
A prototypical subdivision course in a booming area of Northern Kentucky.  This track has all the hallmarks of a 1980’s housing development including generous use of mounds to frame fairways and the requisite manmade ponds with lovely fountains.  In my handful of plays the conditioning has always been wanting and the pace of play slow.

Aston Oaks
This public Nicklaus Design course never actually had Jack onsite, and it shows.  It’s routed on some severe topography on the city’s far west side and sports a handful of green-to-tee transitions measured in the hundreds of yards.  The short par-4 12th has a commanding hilltop view along the Ohio River, but condos closely line the hole’s right side and signage on the tee forbids hitting driver.  Elsewhere, power transmission lines run overhead on the par-5 8th and trees severely restrict the airspace on the short, dropshot par-3 15th.

Stonelick Hills
The best public option in the area, this course is a one-off, designed by the founder of a regional restaurant chain with no previous golf design experience.  Despite the lack of experience, the course presents a lot of fun, strategic holes routed through an alternately wooded environment back into open farmland.  The long distances between some holes make it a cart-only affair, but there is plenty to like here.


Very good list, amazed I have lived in Ohio for good portion of my life and only played Four Bridges (way more than four) and Clovernook on the private end in the 'Nati.  As for public golf courses:


These are the ones that I have played that are good to decent:


Sharon Woods
The Mill Course
Stonelick Hills
Miami Whitewater
Avon Fields
Neumann
California
Glenview
Hickory Woods
Cedar Trace
Devou Park (KY)
Boone Links (KY)
Lassing Point (KY)
Hickory Sticks (KY)
Hickory Woods


Sharon Woods, The Mill Course, Lassing Point, and California are probably the best.  The Mill Course is a redo of a former Bill Diddel course.  Devou Park has some very good views of downtown Cincinnati and is extremely hilly.  I really like Avon Hills and there is a lot of Langford left in the greens; but, the course is quite short and has abandoned many back tees (you can see then in the woods) and shortened at least one hole to a par 3.  I played the course in the off-season and can see it being a long round during the summer.


Chris
« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 08:35:51 PM by Chris_Blakely »

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2021, 02:51:16 PM »
Interesting that you included Moraine (not exactly convenient to Cincinnati) and did not include NCR-South next door.


I wondered why Moraine was included at all, makes no sense really.  It'd be like posting a list of Dayton and including Scioto (no mention of other courses in Columbus).


I say this as a former NCR member (moved) who really enjoyed the courses there.

Steve Kohler

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2021, 04:09:18 PM »
Interesting that you included Moraine (not exactly convenient to Cincinnati) and did not include NCR-South next door.


I wondered why Moraine was included at all, makes no sense really.  It'd be like posting a list of Dayton and including Scioto (no mention of other courses in Columbus).


I say this as a former NCR member (moved) who really enjoyed the courses there.


I included Moraine because I think that highly of it and wanted to mention it as a viable option if you're in Cincinnati looking for a game.  NCR may fit that criteria as well, but I've never played it.  The drive to southern Dayton (Kettering) is barely longer than the travel time to courses like Stonelick Hills or Belterra from many areas of the Cincy metro.

Jason Thurman

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Re: Cincinnati OH Golf Guide
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2021, 11:01:39 AM »
8)  Frank discussion is one thing, but it seems golf is very depressing to some folks living on the 7 hills of Cinti...  Its a big city and lots of regional demand, but certainly not as bad as some locales...


Anyone ever played Fairfield Greens South?  A working man's venue...


It's not that the Cincinnati golf scene is plain bad. Our upper tier is a little weak relative to most comparably-sized cities, but there's plenty of decent golf in the Doak 4 range.


I do think, though, that it's a uniquely challenging city to be an "average golfer" for mostly non-architectural reasons. The prevalence of league play on public courses is unique to Cincinnati in my experience - Beech Creek is the only course I can think of in Hamilton County that doesn't have leagues booking things up literally every weekday afternoon during the playing season.


Practically speaking, this kills our local public scene for an avid player with a day job. You either get onboard with a weekly shotgun 9 holes of cartball and fluffed lies for 3 hours, or you don't play during the week. On weekends, you'll see no sign of golf's economic downturn, as virtually all courses get packed and stacked for more impossibly slow rounds.


So, join a private course! But the Cincinnati private scene is dominated by "country clubs" over golf clubs - a few blue bloods, and a few that are foolishly trying to keep up with Joneses. If you have the means to join an upper tier club, you only have three or four options that provide an above average course. Hopefully you enjoy platform tennis or bowling. And assessments too, in my experience, because you'll find plenty of new clubhouses and accompanying debt at mid-tier clubs trying to maintain the illusion of being a full service high end one.


If you love the virtues of the game that we point to on this site all the time: walking golf, golf-focused, fast and firm, family-friendly, land fit for purpose, and so on, you just don't find it in a pure and simple form here very often.


All that said, you CAN find it. I love my club situation. But as a member of what's probably a Doak 3, I pretty much never itch to play an away round anywhere in town. I mean, sure, I happily look forward to any invitation to Camargo, Hyde Park, Coldstream, or Clovernook. But otherwise, nothing really gets me excited to leave home.


If I were married to a 3, and could walk around town all day and never see anyone who turns my head or makes me wonder about the height-of-cut elsewhere, then I would tell people that I live in a town that lacks attractive women. As it is, I say that I live in a town that lacks attractive golfing options, although they can be found.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.