If clubhouses disappeared ......

[Jim Sherma]

Interesting natural experiment at one of my clubs. It is a fairly high end golf club with a pool but no tennis. The club opened in 1998 and has the following set up:


> A separate pro shop
> An old manor house that was refurbished and expanded to serve as a formal club house with locker rooms, multiple rooms for formal dining, and two bar areas - all of which are very nicely done
> In between the clubhouse and the pro shop is a third building with a small bar area that has a couple of tables and 8 or so bar stools, a dining area with 4 tables and an outside patio with 4 tables - Food choices are fairly good pub fare - Downstairs is a small locker room area with a shower


The story that I was told was that for some time after opening the formal clubhouse was kept open and very underutilized. Most of the golfers simply went to the small bar building. Even with the staff trying to drive use of the clubhouse it just never happened. The set up today is that other than the large locker rooms the clubhouse is essentially unused other than for events like theme dinners, paid for events and occasional weekend formal dining. Clearly the members spoke and made use of the more minimalist type of bar/pub facility that has been getting discussed on this thread.

[John Kavanaugh]

For me, the end of the sentence “If clubhouses disappeared” would be “it would radically change my social life”.
Ours is a Golden age club with a 60,000 square foot clubhouse built in 1916.  It sits overlooking three tee boxes and three greens.  Has a large grill room, and an even larger “living room/ ballroom” that hosts many weddings as well as fundraising events from the cancer society, etc. Not to mention lots of nights where there is a band of some sort for a members event.  Has a wraparound patio overlooking all those tees and greens that creates a lot of opportunity after your round to hang around, see other friends playing, talk some trash, have a cocktail.  My wife and I are avid golfers and frequently spend most of the weekend days there, right through dinner with whatever friends are milling around which is usually quite a few. The food is off the charts good, as it has to be to compete with local restaurants. Would we build it if it didn’t exist?   Not sure, but the membership uses the heck out of it, and it’s the center of the social lives of hundreds of people.  Not sure which is the cart and which is the horse!

I thank God for people like you everyday.

[Rob Marshall]

For me, the end of the sentence “If clubhouses disappeared” would be “it would radically change my social life”.
Ours is a Golden age club with a 60,000 square foot clubhouse built in 1916.  It sits overlooking three tee boxes and three greens.  Has a large grill room, and an even larger “living room/ ballroom” that hosts many weddings as well as fundraising events from the cancer society, etc. Not to mention lots of nights where there is a band of some sort for a members event.  Has a wraparound patio overlooking all those tees and greens that creates a lot of opportunity after your round to hang around, see other friends playing, talk some trash, have a cocktail.  My wife and I are avid golfers and frequently spend most of the weekend days there, right through dinner with whatever friends are milling around which is usually quite a few. The food is off the charts good, as it has to be to compete with local restaurants. Would we build it if it didn’t exist?   Not sure, but the membership uses the heck out of it, and it’s the center of the social lives of hundreds of people.  Not sure which is the cart and which is the horse!

Sounds a lot like the Park Club in Buffalo. Amazing outdoor patio looking down on the 18th green.

[corey miller]

What top courses/clubs have succeeded with porta-potties and vending machines?  I can accept the view that National, Maidstone and Shinnecock would still thrive if they eliminated most of the clubhouse yet I don't believe Friars Head, Atlantic and the Bridge would be viable without the expensive clubhouse everyone decries.


What does that say?   

[Ben Hollerbach]

if clubhouses disappeared tomorrow and were replaced by small buildings where you could use the toilets, grab and snack and a drink, buy some balls and tees, arrange a lesson, sit for a few minutes pre/post round would this be acceptable to you?

I'm surprised to have not seen Sweetens Cove mentioned here yet, as what is described above is exactly what the shed facilitates.


Originally Sweetens had plans to build a clubhouse, all be it relatively small. But the investment group who came in evaluated the need and determined for the Sweetens model the shed and minimal facilities worked best. I have talked with people who wish they had more on-site, and one day they may have cabins and a kitchen, but their lack of facilities does not seem to be enough to scare away members and customers.

[Kalen Braley]

For every course that has a terrific setup like Rick describes...how many are the opposite with the clubhouse acting as a giant millstone weighing down operations.  1 out of 10 perhaps are well functioning?  I'll bet its not even that many.

[Tim Martin]

Does anyone want to sit outside after a round of golf on a ninety degree day to eat and drink? I don’t care how big the house is but make sure it is air conditioned at least in the locker rooms and grill/restaurant. Weather permitting I’m good outside.

[Lou_Duran]

golf would be a much less interesting, enjoyable experience.

[Garland Bayley]

golf would be a much less interesting, enjoyable experience.

I'm sure you realize this is a personality based evaluation. Having met you I understand your position. You having met me probably understand why I have little interest in clubhouses. I love the playing. I am uncomfortable with the socializing.

[Lou_Duran]

Garland,


Actually, we are both outliers in some ways.  While I am not a trunk slammer, no club's F & B would survive if I was the typical member.


I tend to look at golf as a big world, and at most clubs I've been associated with, the clubhouse plays an important role.  I haven't given it much thought, but I wonder if there is not a high correlation between clubhouse use and the financial and cultural health of a club.  From the top of my head, those clubs which seem to have a high social buy-in also appear to be the more successful.   

[Ira Fishman]

As is true for most aspects of our lives, my wife balances me out. She is at our club for golf, tennis, Mah Jong, and dining so frequently that no one cares who I am. Maybe because she is way more friendly. We were once there for a bite and the server asked, "Mrs. Fishman, who is your guest?"


To each their own.


Ira

[Bill Seitz]

So, if clubhouses disappeared tomorrow and were replaced by small buildings where you could use the toilets, grab and snack and a drink, buy some balls and tees, arrange a lesson, sit for a few minutes pre/post round would this be acceptable to you?

I suppose so, since this essentially the exact setup we have at my home club.  Some room for merch, a couple indoor tables and nice outside deck, but that's it.  They'll mix you a drink if you want, and there's a small food menu.  You can watch people hit into the 9th hole from the deck, which is more interesting than watching the approaches to 18.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Does anyone want to sit outside after a round of golf on a ninety degree day to eat and drink? I don’t care how big the house is but make sure it is air conditioned at least in the locker rooms and grill/restaurant. Weather permitting I’m good outside.

Have you ever been to the UK or Ireland? 

[Tim Martin]

Does anyone want to sit outside after a round of golf on a ninety degree day to eat and drink? I don’t care how big the house is but make sure it is air conditioned at least in the locker rooms and grill/restaurant. Weather permitting I’m good outside.

Have you ever been to the UK or Ireland? 

Have you ever been to the Mid-Atlantic states  in July?

[John Kavanaugh]

I just realized that I live in a 55+ community and never use the clubhouse. A group of happy people just rode by in a golf cart built for 4 on the the way to cardio kick boxing. I am subsidizing their happiness and potential fitness. This needs to stop!!!

[Bruce Katona]

JK:

While I don't always agree with all of your musings here, I certainly always appreciate your very different view; which can counterbalance many of the purer golf related views posted.


As I've opined in the past, one of the best examples (IMHO) of a clubhouse fir to the purpose was my visit to Tobacco Road - it doesn't need any more. 


One of the reasons many private courses here in the USA offer wedding and banquet catering to non-members is to offset the F&B burden as the clubhouse operates at an annual cash loss to the overall club.  Think about it - if the clubhouse was breaking even there would be no real need for the membership to have to deal with "Bob, Sally & there 200 closest friends singing "Who Let the Dogs Out - Hoot Hoot"" on a Sunday afternoon.

[John Kavanaugh]

Many of you don't know this but I am quite the romantic sentimentalist. It always makes me happy to arrive at the course and see rows of white chairs set up for a wedding. I honestly can't explain why but this is a return on my investment of being a member.


Around 20 years ago my personal Dr. asked me if I could arrange for his daughter to get married at my club. We were not exactly friends as I thankfully was not invited. I also received metaphysical value by providing the service.

[Mike_Trenham]

The Country Club wedding business is shrinking fast, millennials want something more unique. 


Unless you have a very special clubhouse or course using outside revenue/profits to balance your books is getting very challenging.

[Mike Hendren]

Private course memberships are a complete waste of money if you are not interested in club life.

Have you retained your Lawrence County Country Club membership or have you become a total sell-out?


Bogey

[John Kavanaugh]

Private course memberships are a complete waste of money if you are not interested in club life.

Have you retained your Lawrence County Country Club membership or have you become a total sell-out?


Bogey

I will remain a member for life. It's only around $500/year and I still play once or twice. My Dad told me once that it is important to support the club even though I may have access to better golf. It simply makes a bunch of nice people happy as it did my family for many generations.


I also remain a member of another local club that I have not played for almost 5 years now. I tried to resign once and the chairman of the place called me up and said I was a big pussy for quitting. Looks like I'm in for life because he wasn't lying.

[Mike Hendren]

Barney, I would have expected nothing less from you.  I bet I would have liked your Dad.


Be well.


Mike