[Rob Marshall]

Anyone know anything about Pete Craig? He designed a lot of courses around Rochester New York.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I believe his name was actually Archibald "Pete" Craig. "The Finger Lakes Guide to Golf" lists about 10 courses for him in that area, including Clifton Springs where the Hobart College golf team practiced. I did a consulting report for them a few years ago as a proud alum in the golf biz even though I never made the team!

[Rob Marshall]

I've played Clifton many times. What do you think of the tree on 17?

[John Foley]

He sure was prolific around here! Seems like everything in the area that wasn't a major course had his hands on it. I think the last one he did was either Old Hickory or Eagle Vale. Don't know much about him though.

[MCirba]

I've played both Soaring Eagles and Victor Hills and was impressed by each.   Not a lot of flashy bunkering but really good routings that use the glacial landforms very well and some creative greens that put a premium on thoughtful approach play.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I've played Clifton many times. What do you think of the tree on 17?

Neat! I never really expected there would be a day where Clifton Springs would be the center of discussion on GCA, but Clifton Springs has a few unique holes that have interesting relationships with trees. You don't come across holes like #10 and #17 very often!


I believe my recommendations for #17 were to leave their logo tree, but cut down everything else around it. This would have allowed for a greater chance of recovery and open the door for a daring shot.


That hold had some real drainage issues. I haven't been back in a while, but hopefully cleaned out that cool drainage ditch along the left of 17 and behind the green.

[Rob Marshall]

I've played Clifton many times. What do you think of the tree on 17?

Neat! I never really expected there would be a day where Clifton Springs would be the center of discussion on GCA, but Clifton Springs has a few unique holes that have interesting relationships with trees. You don't come across holes like #10 and #17 very often!


I believe my recommendations for #17 were to leave their logo tree, but cut down everything else around it. This would have allowed for a greater chance of recovery and open the door for a daring shot.


That hold had some real drainage issues. I haven't been back in a while, but hopefully cleaned out that cool drainage ditch along the left of 17 and behind the green.

The 17th green was always very wet. I remember that drainage ditch.  Clearing out those trees would be a great move. I forgot about 10. You could hit a really good drive and hit that tree in the middle of the fairway. I heard a rumor that the guy who lived in the house on the 2nd tee bought the course. Not sure if that’s true or not.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I've played Clifton many times. What do you think of the tree on 17?

Neat! I never really expected there would be a day where Clifton Springs would be the center of discussion on GCA, but Clifton Springs has a few unique holes that have interesting relationships with trees. You don't come across holes like #10 and #17 very often!


I believe my recommendations for #17 were to leave their logo tree, but cut down everything else around it. This would have allowed for a greater chance of recovery and open the door for a daring shot.


That hold had some real drainage issues. I haven't been back in a while, but hopefully cleaned out that cool drainage ditch along the left of 17 and behind the green.

The 17th green was always very wet. I remember that drainage ditch.  Clearing out those trees would be a great move. I forgot about 10. You could hit a really good drive and hit that tree in the middle of the fairway. I heard a rumor that the guy who lived in the house on the 2nd tee bought the course. Not sure if that’s true or not.

I think you are correct about the guy on 2... or at least that was the plan/one option to help inject some improvement funds.

[John Foley]

I can attest that the guy on #2 is the new owner and providing much of the capital for the renovations, I have a friend who is a member and he has confirmed.


I've enjoyed the course, but there are WAAY too many tree's which effect the playability / recovery. Think of Stafford and how much improved that course is given the tree removal. Clifton could be that or close to it.

[PGertner]

Rob,


I grew up playing Penfield CC....and have very fond memories. As a 7 or 8 year old kid hanging out at the pool, my dad would pull me away to pick small stones on 17 and 18 fairways because members were required to fill a baggie as they played. He was no dummy....he just had me do it for him, and my career path as a Supt was sealed at a young age.


I still cringe at the "tees for trees" program from that time, too....even though I know they have addressed the tree issue. As a Supt, I have probably dropped 5,000 trees during my career, quite possibly in defiance of my memories of that program. (Finally, the truth comes out!)


Eventually, I will get back there again to see the changes I have heard about. Pete did very nice work in upstate NY...

[Rob Marshall]

Rob,


I grew up playing Penfield CC....and have very fond memories. As a 7 or 8 year old kid hanging out at the pool, my dad would pull me away to pick small stones on 17 and 18 fairways because members were required to fill a baggie as they played. He was no dummy....he just had me do it for him, and my career path as a Supt was sealed at a young age.


I still cringe at the "tees for trees" program from that time, too....even though I know they have addressed the tree issue. As a Supt, I have probably dropped 5,000 trees during my career, quite possibly in defiance of my memories of that program. (Finally, the truth comes out!)


Eventually, I will get back there again to see the changes I have heard about. Pete did very nice work in upstate NY...

Ian Andrew did a great job with our bunkers and we are starting his tree removal plan. You would be shocked to see the 4th hole. Cleared the trees out to the left of the rock wall so now you can see the green from the tee. Some new well placed bunkers also. Probably our best looking hole. The 11th and the 17th also have a completely different look.

[David Bowen]

If not mistaken, Pete was asked to construct the greens at Reservoir Creek in Naples.  Being retired he initially declined.  After seeing the property he agreed to do the job.  Though the layout has some issues with the routing of 3 or 4 holes, the greens are quite good, with a few that slope front to back, requiring a careful and deliberate approach.  There are a couple greens that are truly outlandish, namely 1 and 4.  Though I think they are fun, someone in the group invariably makes a negative comment, usually after putting off the green or failing to even hole out.  I haven't played all of his courses, but of those I have played, the greens don't approach the character of those at Reservoir Creek. 


I don't know if the new ownership is responsible for the condition of the greens at Clifton, but they were in excellent shape and speed when played a couple times this past season.  9, 12, and 13 come quickly to mind in terms of challenge.

[John Foley]

David - I hadn't heard that. I had heard it was an outside shaper who may have helped w/ some of the courses around Buffalo (Ivy Ridge, Arrowhead etc..) that was brought in to do those greens. Which, as you mention, are pretty dramatic. I like the course and even though the routing of the first few holes is a bit of a head scratcher it is fun to play.

[Rob Marshall]

So is Pete still alive and living in the Rochester area?

[Ronald Montesano]

Blaine Harrison shaped Reservoir Creek, and the Ivy Ridge folks heard about him, and it saved Ivy Ridge. Pete Craig actually did some work on the country club of Buffalo at some point...amazing.

[David Bowen]

Well, there you go.  An example of how course histories can get scrambled . 


I was told that Pete Craig was overseeing construction of the greens at Reservoir Creek, and that was before the course opened, perhaps even before any dirt was moved.  And if the guy who told me was who I think it was, I can see where it may not have been reliable information. As mentioned, the greens are much bolder than those on other Pete Craig courses so I am not surprised to be corrected.


RocWiki has this incomplete list of Pete Craig courses.
 Blue Heron Hills Country Club in Macedon (with Dick Bator)

• Country Club of Mendon in Mendon
  

• Holland Heights Golf Course in Herkimer
  

• Old Hickory Golf Club in Livonia
  

• Parkview Fairways in Victor
  

• Penfield Country Club in Penfield
  

• The Pines Golf Club in Orange City
  

• Salmon Creek Country Club in Spencerport
  

• Shadow Lake Golf & Racquet Club in Penfield
  

• Twin Hills Golf Course in Spencerport
  

• Wild Wood Country Club in Rush (in 1968)¹

• 
  
  

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