[ForkaB]

I think that many on this thread (including the instigator) are mistakenly equating "great" pin positions with "evil" or just difficult pin positions.  Most also, seem to be focusing on what happens after you get to the green, rather than what gets you there.

To me a "great" pin position has the following characteristics:

1.  It can be reached in a multitude of ways, with a multitude of clubs, from various positions in the fairways and the rough.  High balls, low balls, cuts, draws, bumps and floaters can all get near the hole--IF HIT PROPERLY and with varying degrees of risk.

2.  That being said, there is a "position A" in the fairway (or rough) which allows for a higher probability of getting near the pin.

3.  There will ALWAYS be a way to get the ball close to the pin.  Maybe it will be extremely difficult, or highly risky, but there will be a way.

4.  Regardless of how poorly you execute your 2nd shot (assuming you are not OB or in H20), there will always be a reasonable chance to get bogey.  If 4-putting is possible, it is not a "great" pin position--it is goofy golf.

[eph42]

The 13th at Taconic GC, Back Right.
The green is 40+ yards deep and it is Extremely difficult to take enough club to get back to the pin...You are almost always hitting off of a sidehill lie that wants to push your ball to the right, bringing a sharp falloff to the right of the green into play.  If you aim your ball left and it does not fade, you are left with either a delicate downhill chip or a very difficult sweeping putt that I have seen many people leave A) 20 feet short right, or B) putt off the green.  What a pin position... makes you hit a perfect shot to keep it below the hole on the right part of the green.

[stovepipe]

dear me, how long have you been playing this game? dont be afraid, take all the trouble out of play, put your 3 iron away and take your driver its the longest club in the bag if you didnt know, what i did when i was there last , i hit driver, 9 iron, peice of piss, and just missed out on my putt, cmon man, are you a man or a mouse?

[stovepipe]

im realy hacked off! i played in a tournament in a qualifying event, and just scraped in, rounds 1-3 the pin was in a favourable position,middle fronts. the last day thay were cut back left, back right if you were 2 yards off you were in a dead ball situation looking to get down in 3 more strokes, i was striking the ball better on day 4 than previous days, and made the worst score. 71, 70, 68,73. Isnt this game hard enough, YOU KNOW ITS TIME TO GIVE UP WHEN THE COURSE STARTS FIGHTING BACK!

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think that one of the other great pin positions in golf is the far right pin on # 8 at NGLA.

From the fairway, that pin looks like it is suspended off the green.

It is one of the most formidable visuals in golf.
And, those that choose to play safe will be left with long putts to a hole that is dangerously close to the edge of a STEEP embankment, recovery from which is very difficult.

Pin positions for the purpose of this discussion isn't about gimmickie locations causing 4 and 5 putts, although there might be a few locations on the 1st green at NGLA that could cause that.

Jeff Fortson,

I'd agree with all of your choices, that I've played.

[Jeff Fortson]

Rich,

I agree with most of your criteria but ultimately I think a great hole location is one that challenges you personally.  If we are using a set of rules or criteria in naming hole locations then I'm willing to follow the guidelines.  

I personally find hole locations that either force you to play away from them to ensure a par, or demand a nearly perfect shot to get close and missed shots are tough to save par from, as great.  

I cited 6 different holes that I thought represent my opinions of great hole locations.

I noticed you did not mention one hole location.  What hole locations do you think are "great"?

By the way, I hope you enjoyed golf with my father.  He said he had a great time with you and Martin.  


Jeff F.

[jim_lewis]

Back right pin on the second at Pinehurst #2 and the back right "Sunday pin" on the 12th at ANGC.  The two best sucker pins I know of.

[DPL11]

Anywhere on the 2nd green at PVGC!  

[kalamine]

www.13thbeach.net/course/gallery.htm

the 16th green here... it doesnt matter where the pin is you are just happy to land on short stuff... the far side of the green looks just as friendly as the side shown here from the 13th tee...

 i was looking for a photo of the 3rd hole. long par 3, 175m with what looks like two greens stuck together at a point and where they meet would be a great pin position...

[ForkaB]

Jeff

I agree with you re: personal challenges, but I also think that to be realy "great" a pin position must challenge all levels of golfers with all sorts of ball flights and other personal characteristics.  In addition, I think this whole question is hard to answer for holes one has played only once or twice, as you just cannot absorb enough information on how the hole really plays in all sorts of conditions.  All that being said, some of the holes I think would best meet my criteria are:

--#5 Dornoch mid-left (I have a lot of candidates at RDGC because I know it so well.  For this question, familiarity breeds understanding, and fear....)
--A number of the more obvious ones mentioned by posters above (18 TOC over the VofS, 18 left at Harbour Town, etc.)
--13 CPC, back left
--6 NGLA back left
--5 Merion far right
--back shelf at 17 TPC-Sawgrass
--back right 17 Painswick

PS--very much enjoyed meeting and playing with your Dad.  I've just gotta learn how to play that lovely high draw he hits (long!) off the tee.  I ruptured a few gut muscles just trying to keep up with him!

[bg_in_rtp]

Back-left at #5 at Pinehurst #2.  Putts from the front break at least 10 feet from R->L, and you risk putting into the bunker.

Left side of #9 at Pinehurst #2 as it runs away off the back of the green and a long putt from the right is almost impossible if you play safe.

Sunday pin on #18 at Pinehurst #2.  You can't help but want to recreate Payne Stewart's last US Open putt.

[Jeff Fortson]

Rich,

#6 NGLA  back left   great call!!!  You can bring it in high, low drawing or fading.  Very much a shot makers location.

Nice post.


Jeff F.

P.S.:  When my dad says he's going to fade a shot it still draws 5 yards.  

[noonan]

TOC #1 Front behind the burn....downwind.

JK

[noonan]

#17 TPC Sawgrass.....sunday pin on the right....or back side downwind.

JK

[Dunlop_White]

Since we all are generally familiar with The Masters. I'll try some great ones of ANGC.

Hole 1: Anywhere Left
Hole 3: Back Toungue
Hole 4: Back Right
Hole 5: just over middle hump or back right
Hole 6: Back right
Hole 7  Front left
Hole 8: Back left
Hole 9: Anywhere Front
Hole 11: Middle left
Hole 12: Back right
Hole 14: middle right or back left
Hole 16: middle right or back left
Hole 17 back right

[skivail]

Valhalla, 18th front middle, Royal Melbourne 6th west front left, and ANGC 2nd front far left.

[Eddie Adams]

What about this for The Old Course

1st   5 on  7 left
4th   6 on  5 left
7th   7 on  4 right
8th  45 on 20 left
11th  23 on on back right
13th 45 on  9 right
16th   9 on  6 right
18th  37 on 12 right

In yards and into a gentle 20 mph wind from the West

 Awe the braw
 Eddie

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