The ridiculous cost of irrigation

[Tom_Doak]

Thomas D. & Duncan C. -

There are large portions of the U.S. where it does not rain at all for 5 to 6 months in a row and/or the temperatures can average 90F or more for weeks or months at a time. Irrigation isn't just a matter of keeping a course green. For some/many courses it is needed to keep the course alive and in business.

Yes, but ever since we started building courses in Arizona, irrigation designers want to treat EVERY part of the U.S. like it's Arizona.


Also, as Thomas and Duncan will not understand, a big reason for having so much irrigation in the USA is that people want to drive golf carts all over the place, and the tires of the golf carts singe the turf in the summer months.  Many golf courses water the turf way more than the turf would otherwise need, to minimize damage from golf carts.


That's one of those "hidden costs" that no one thinks to account for when justifying golf carts as a revenue producer.

[jeffwarne]

True re carts.


As far as "green" Ohoopee has shot up in the ratings being played basically as a fal/winter/spring course, being closed in the summer-bermuda's primary growing season.
Unlike AGNC, with a similar(albeit shorter) season, Ohoopee does not overseed, but plays their primary season on a semi dormant to dormant surface.
So it seems tawny, brown, and even white turf have been embraced(or at least tolerated) by raters.


It would seem those making irrigation decisions would want to take note of this as far as the color/texture of the surface they feel they need provide in their own playing season.


Back to Tom's point on carts, they are tough on dormant turf-whether due to cold or heat .

[Tom_Doak]

Back to Tom's point on carts, they are tough on dormant turf-whether due to cold or heat .

Yes, golf carts are also a primary reason [or excuse] for why so many southern golf courses overseed.

[Don Mahaffey]

Yes, but ever since we started building courses in Arizona, irrigation designers want to treat EVERY part of the U.S. like it's Arizona.

This is a huge part of the problem...designs have become boilerplate. I interviewed for a consulting position recently...I knew I wasn't going to be selected when I was asked where my plans were...in the first interview...before I'd even had a chance to visit in depth with the Supt and club. When designers walk into a first interview with a set of plans you know your just getting a copy and paste from another project...but in fairness, what architects are rewriting their specs for every project?  We've become a boilerplate copy and paste industry...although there are a few who bring experience and talent and start fresh with each project. But I'm not so sure many appreciate that approach.

[John Emerson]

Lots of good info here.  I was going to make a post summarizing some of the key takeaways and might get to that later.  In the meantime, could it be argued that the introduction and adaption of automatic irrigation on golf courses might have had the single biggest impact on golf course design in the last 75 years!  Think about what it has done before a quick answer.

Not even close.  Suburbanization of America had the biggest impact on expectations.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Thomas D. & Duncan C. -

There are large portions of the U.S. where it does not rain at all for 5 to 6 months in a row and/or the temperatures can average 90F or more for weeks or months at a time. Irrigation isn't just a matter of keeping a course green. For some/many courses it is needed to keep the course alive and in business.

Yes, but ever since we started building courses in Arizona, irrigation designers want to treat EVERY part of the U.S. like it's Arizona.


Also, as Thomas and Duncan will not understand, a big reason for having so much irrigation in the USA is that people want to drive golf carts all over the place, and the tires of the golf carts singe the turf in the summer months.  Many golf courses water the turf way more than the turf would otherwise need, to minimize damage from golf carts.


That's one of those "hidden costs" that no one thinks to account for when justifying golf carts as a revenue producer.

The issue of carts is surely inextricably linked to the issue of golf courses being built in unsuitable places, such as deserts.

People insist on taking a cart because its too hot to walk. Expensive irrigation is essential because it doesn't rain. The cart usage exacerbates the irrigation problem.

Are golf courses built in areas of low rainfall going to be sustainable long term? In a battle for precious water resources between golf, agriculture, and sanitation golf comes a very poor third. Any politician worth a dime is going to campaign to let the golf courses die. I'd agree with him.

It is interesting that many of the high profile destination golf resorts built recently are in areas of temperate climate and significant rainfall. Bandon, Cabot, etc not only have Scottish links-like terrain; they also have Scottish weather! People are also happy to walk. I don't know how much the irrigation systems cost at these places but I can only imagine that the courses could function perfectly well with systems a fraction of the size required at a course in Las Vegas.

If I want to go skiing I have to travel a thousand miles to the mountains because I don't live in a place that has big slopes or snow.  I don't see why someone who lives in a dry, arid region shouldn't expect to have to travel a thousand miles to play golf in a suitable climate where irrigation is largely unnecessary and it is more pleasant to walk than take a cart.

Golf belongs in regions that can support golf courses in a sustainable manner. Regions with very low rainfall have no right to expect to have golf courses which divert water from more important uses.

[Kalen Braley]

Big difference between putting a golf course in a hot environment, vs skiing...

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-ski-dubai-2012-5

If golf courses cost $400 million to build in Arizona, maybe they might not be there either.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Big difference between putting a golf course in a hot environment, vs skiing...

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-of-ski-dubai-2012-5

If golf courses cost $400 million to build in Arizona, maybe they might not be there either.

IMO It is just as ridiculous to build golf courses in Dubai as it is to build indoor ski slopes.


 

[Thomas Dai]

If I want to go skiing I have to travel a thousand miles to the mountains because I don't live in a place that has big slopes or snow.  I don't see why someone who lives in a dry, arid region shouldn't expect to have to travel a thousand miles to play golf in a suitable climate where irrigation is largely unnecessary and it is more pleasant to walk than take a cart.
Golf belongs in regions that can support golf courses in a sustainable manner. Regions with very low rainfall have no right to expect to have golf courses which divert water from more important uses.

Nicely worded Duncan.
Atb

[Thomas Dai]

...... a big reason for having so much irrigation in the USA is that people want to drive golf carts all over the place, and the tires of the golf carts singe the turf in the summer months.  Many golf courses water the turf way more than the turf would otherwise need, to minimize damage from golf carts.
That's one of those "hidden costs" that no one thinks to account for when justifying golf carts as a revenue producer.

Thanks for this insight Tom (and others who later commented along similar lines).
Atb

[Steve Lang]

   Duncan, Ridiculous yes, but that's what makes it fun, the juxtaposition of reality!  I don't see anyone that isn't smiling.


I see over 500 water reclamation facilities in the southern half of the USA that help supply commercial industry and golf courses, etc. with water.  Golf courses are cited for 60% of them.  Go to https://www.energy.gov/eere/femp/reclaimed-wastewater-map you can download the utility data... Probably more now as this list appears a little dated. 


So that opinion of unsustainable competition for water service needs to be challenged here in USA

Here's also an irrigation water balance view for consideration..


map_rwh_availability_irrigation.png

[Mark_Fine]

John,
Irrigation allowed golf courses to be built where they couldn’t be built before. Also, back when single line irrigation systems were first installed on golf courses, the width of the throw became the new width of the fairways and courses started to narrow.  Members didn’t like the brown grass where the irrigation couldn’t reach so many started to plant trees and such began the narrowing and cluttering of golf courses with trees.  Irrigation also allowed new kinds of grasses to be cultivated and in part lead to the green speeds we have today.  Superintendents can now water one high spot on a green if they want without watering anything else and they can do it from their phone.   As long as grass is used on golf courses and its makeup remains 90% water, irrigation will play a vital role (even more so as water becomes more and more a scarce and valuable resource).  Irrigation might not be number one but it has a huge impact on GCA and as you have learned  from this thread is very expensive and a big part of the design and maintenance budget.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Superintendents can now water one high spot on a green if they want without watering anything else and they can do it from their phone.   

What the hell kind of phone is that? Where does the water come out of the phone? If a superintendent wants to water a high spot on the green he does so with a hose, not a phone. The phone can turn heads on but they will proceed through their arc, watering non target areas.

[Mark_Fine]

Tom B.
The technology is such that on some systems the super can just turn on one head and hit the spot he wants from his phone. He can also for example do a quick cooling spray on his greens (or a particular green) on a hot humid day to take down the temperature of the grass (all from his phone).  No need to drag around a hose all the time for some.  And yes some still hand water especially the supers who have done it that way for years (or who don’t have any other way to water).  They can also mist bunker faces, avoid putting water on approaches when watering greens, only hit certain parts of fairways or rough, all controlled by their programming on their phone. Some systems now use GPS technology and are precise where they water and how much they water right down to the second.  It is crazy (and expensive).  The systems can measure grass temp,... and tell the super where he might have an issue and what to do about it. 

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tom B.
The technology is such that on some systems the super can just turn on one head and hit the spot he wants from his phone. He can also for example do a quick cooling spray on his greens (or a particular green) on a hot humid day to take down the temperature of the grass (all from his phone).  No need to drag around a hose all the time for some.  And yes some still hand water especially the supers who have done it that way for years (or who don’t have any other way to water).  They can also mist bunker faces, avoid putting water on approaches when watering greens, only hit certain parts of fairways or rough, all controlled by their programming on their phone. Some systems now use GPS technology and are precise where they water and how much they water right down to the second.  It is crazy (and expensive).  The systems can measure grass temp,... and tell the super where he might have an issue and what to do about it.

Mark-I believer Tom’s comment was tongue in cheek.


As to your above comment, any good superintendent knows the proper way to water a hot spot is with a hose. Even some of the tightest spacing has a 50-60foot radius of watering. Still too many areas getting water that probably don’t need it, on a greens, that is. A hose is still the best want to spot water.


There are many clubs with $2-3m irrigation systems that will have 8-12 staffers dragging a hose on a hot summer day.

[Mark_Fine]

Anthony,
My bad.  Sorry Tom B, didn’t know you were joking.  Sometimes it is hard to tell.  I saw some people saying only build courses where it rains or the only reason you need irrigation is to keep courses green so it can be hard to tell.


I agree with you about hand watering, many still do it but the technology is getting crazy accurate with GPS technology.  I am sure you have seen demos what can be done these days.  I won’t say who but I have seen systems cost up to $5MM. Is that crazy or what!!! I wonder if they still drag a hose there?  Maybe they do 😊

[Mike_Young]

  I won’t say who but I have seen systems cost up to $5MM. Is that crazy or what!!! I wonder if they still drag a hose there?  Maybe they do 😊

yes

[Peter Pallotta]

Money may not be the root of all evil, but it sure does explain a lot of it.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
I just texted a super who I know has a fancy system.  He said it is amazing what can be done but he still likes to hand water.  Sometimes it is hard to ever change.  But who would have ever thought your refrigerator could order groceries for you and your car would text you that it needs an oil change after it drove you to work.  AI is just getting started and one day we will have smart golf courses just like we have smart phones.  Like it or not, we are not far away, at least for some courses. 

[David_Tepper]

This thread probably should have been titled "The ridiculous cost of irrigation systems."  That might have kept it on point and prevented it from devolving into a discussion about the general role and place of irrigation in maintaining a golf course.

Personally, I find the notion that millions of people should be denied a chance to play a properly conditioned golf course because the live where it does not rain for months at a time or suffers from high temps for weeks at a time to be curious, to say the least.

[Mike_Young]

Personally, I find the notion that millions of people should be denied a chance to play a properly conditioned golf course because the live where it does not rain for months at a time or suffers from high temps for weeks at a time to be curious, to say the least.

I'm confused..could you explain...

[David_Tepper]

"Fair point but golf, like many other outdoor sports and pastimes, is essentially a seasonal game both in terms of playing it and the playing surface, something that doesn't seem to be as appreciated by golfers as it once was."

"Golf belongs in regions that can support golf courses in a sustainable manner. Regions with very low rainfall have no right to expect to have golf courses which divert water from more important uses."

[Mike_Young]

"Fair point but golf, like many other outdoor sports and pastimes, is essentially a seasonal game both in terms of playing it and the playing surface, something that doesn't seem to be as appreciated by golfers as it once was."

"Golf belongs in regions that can support golf courses in a sustainable manner. Regions with very low rainfall have no right to expect to have golf courses which divert water from more important uses."

Agree 100%...

[David_Tepper]

Mike -

I suppose how one defines "sustainable manner."

In San Francisco & Northern California it does not rain at all from mid-April to mid-October. How could the courses here function/survive without irrigation?

DT

P.S. It also depends on how one defines a "properly conditioned golf course." No doubt there are too many courses in the U.S. that are over-watered.   

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Living in a residential community with 3 courses in the West Valley of Phoenix, I can attest that golf is alive and well, not withstanding the weather or minimal rainfall- 4to6 inches/year. We do 120,000+ rounds/year. The summer(June to September) heat is relentless but our residents can  still play, the earlier(630-7am) the better as about mid to high 80sF is the usual temperature then. Afternoon play is rare . Now, from November through January, the usual morning temp is in the 40s with afternoon temps in the 60s. Our big season is February through May with morning temps in the 60s and afternoon temps in the 80s or higher.
Obviously, we couldn't do this without irrigation systems and good superintendents; however, the cost of water is escalating and is a major concern. We are reviewing the need to keep all courses  green in the summer season and close one at some time in the future in order to save water costs. We do not overseed wall to wall- just tees, fairways and greens. That saves money and our golfers are used to it.
There are not that many walkers here as we are a 55+ community.
To those over the pond, how many of your courses do 40,000 rounds/year given your weather?   .