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David Ober

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Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« on: December 12, 2020, 04:50:53 PM »
Hello All,


My son is considering joining a nice club in the area. He and his wife-to-be live in Falls Church and he recently took a job in Bethesda. I'm encouraging him to look into top-end clubs, as they are both in their early/mid-30's and most top clubs still have aggressive, attractive programs for "junior executive" members, if I'm not mistaken.


"Get in now and make it part of your life and you'll never regret it," is what I've been telling him...


David
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 10:39:36 PM by David Ober »

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2020, 05:52:21 PM »
If they are interested in just golf and dining, TPC Potomac is likely the closest and easiest to get into.  I know Congo, and suspect Chevy and Columbia are harder to get into.  Lakewood and Manor are also possible quality clubs to consider which are easy commutes from Bethesda.

James Brown

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2020, 10:48:05 PM »
Good luck getting into Congressional, Chevy Chase or Columbia.  Plan on a ten year campaign and 100k.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 10:52:27 PM by James Brown »

Greg Gilson

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2020, 12:00:42 AM »
River Bend? decent course following reno & a friendly membership 9based on a tiny sample size)

Andy Shulman

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2020, 02:52:00 AM »
Westwood CC in Vienna should be on the list.  It's much closer to your son's Falls Church, offers an under-40 membership category and has a solid course that was renovated in 2013.  While traffic in DC hasn't been quite so bad during the pandemic, driving from Falls Church to a club in Bethesda for a weekend round or take the kids to the pool will be time consuming and potentially stressful once things return to "normal."

Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2020, 07:13:22 AM »
River Bend is wonderful but from Bethesda it might as well be on another planet.  Westwood is OK since the recent redo and as stated they are looking for members and are reasonable to get into but the traffic!  If you live nearby it is a realistic choice.  But from Bethesda you would have to negotiate Tysons Corner and/or Rt66 traffic which is epic even in the best of times.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2020, 08:42:54 AM »
I used to belong to two very good clubs in the DC area. The CC at Woodmore is a very good Palmer design. The MD State Golf Association use the course for itw Open and Am quite a bit. It has a nice pool area and Har Tru tennis courts. On the golf club side Four Streams is an excellent golf only and single only memberships. No family membership there. It is an excellent Smyers design and a great club atmosphere. It was purchased by a member in 2014, the year I moved away so I can't tell you exactly what it is like today. Both courses are highly thought of.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Bernie Bell

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2020, 09:37:06 AM »
David -


From Falls Church I would put Washington Golf, Army Navy and Belle Haven on the list.


From Bethesda, there are many ways to go.  "Top clubs" means different things to different people.  I'd be happy to talk to your son if that would be helpful; just PM me for contact info. 

Ira Fishman

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2020, 09:45:52 AM »
If their home is going to be main base for golf, they want to be on the Virginia side. River Bend is quite good if a bit over bunkered. It has a great practice facility. Belle Haven is solid. Bernie lists Washington Golf which would be the most convenient. It is a classic old club. The Doak team just completed a major renovation. I have not spoken to anyone who has played it.


Ira

Andy Shulman

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2020, 11:55:29 PM »
Ira is correct that joining on the VA side is the way to go.  Thinking down the road, if your son and his wife like Falls Church and plan to have children, the best schools are in the city of FC and in Western Fairfax County.  That probably eliminates Belle Haven (a good course and club) and makes Washington Golf, Westwood and River Bend the best options geographically.


Admittedly, weekday rounds and post-work practice will require driving from Bethesda back to VA.  That's life in DC, but hopefully after the pandemic, working from home will be even more acceptable than it already was, which should mostly solve that problem.


Your son should be aware that Wash Golf is less than 6.400 yards from the tips.  That'd be plenty for me, but may not be what he's got in mind.  I can probably put him in touch with someone who belongs there if he's interested.

Jeff Ober

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2020, 11:10:29 AM »
Hi all, Jeff Ober, Dave's son, here.  Thanks very much to everyone for your thoughts.  Quick update: My fiancee and I toured Lakewood Country Club in Rockville, MD on Saturday and I've played golf there twice.  It's certainly an option, but both of us want to explore others before committing.  Pros include a very reasonable initiation fee for people under 35, a couple of very good friends there, and tennis and swimming for my fiancee.  Cons include the fact that it's not too convenient to either home or the office, the course is largely uninspired in my opinion (Rees Jones renovation, would get old playing it repeatedly due to soggy conditions year-round and lack of interesting holes), and somewhat outdated facilities. 


As I see it, there are three main criteria I'm trying to balance:


(1) Accessibility:  Can I even get in, and will I need to take out a second mortgage to pay the initiation?
(2) Playability:  Is this a course that I'm going to want to play (hopefully) 4-8 times per month indefinitely, and do they have good practice facilities for when I can't play?
(3) Convenience:  Is it close enough to home/work that I can use it during the week without getting up too early or getting home too late?


Would also love to have amenities for my fiancee, who wants to play more golf but is currently a beginner and looking for other things to do at the club, but we both agree this is largely about me and my golf for the time being. 


Those are obviously difficult to balance.  I hear great things (both in this thread and elsewhere) about the course and facilities at River Bend, but it's 30 minutes from home and work even without traffic and I don't currently know anyone there.  The Bethesda clubs (Bethesda, Congo, Chevy Chase, Columbia) would be incredibly convenient, but now price is getting to be a significant issue, and aside from Congo, I haven't heard much of note about those courses.  And some of the most convenient, like Westwood Country Club and Country Club of Fairfax, seem pretty uninspired, though I'd love to hear otherwise.


So my top candidates at this point are:
(1) Congo:  Seems like the only one that would possibly justify Bethesda-area prices, given the courses, amenities, prestige, and convenience. I know a couple members and will be talking to one tomorrow to see just how difficult the membership process is for someone under 35.
(2) Washington Golf and Country Club:  Would love to hear more from others about the course/membership, or to be put in touch with any members.  A partner at my firm is a member there and I will also reach out to him.  From what I've heard, this may be a bit aspirational given our budget and relative lack of connections, but if it's a Doak renovation, at least the course would be interesting and it's convenient to home.  I'm sure even at 6400 it would be fun to play, but fair to wonder how fun it would be a couple years from now. 
(3) TPC Potomac:  Happens to be directly between work and home, interesting enough course to host a tour event, and the best practice facilities I've ever been on.  Would love to know if anyone has joined or considered joining there.  Only downside is that it appears to be golf-only, which isn't ideal for my fiancee.


Based on your feedback here, I'm also reaching out to River Bend.  It may not be as convenient as the others, but if it's a good course and good facilities, could be worth the drive. 


Thanks again for your thoughts and would welcome any feedback on the above.  Really appreciate the community support.  And if anyone has an in at Burning Tree, let me know (lol). [size=78%] [/size]


 

Ira Fishman

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2020, 12:41:49 PM »
Jeff,


If you are open to being on the Maryland side of the River, I suggest adding Bethesda CC. Not at Congressional level, but I know that they were having a Membership drive last year which might be continuing. Most people think it is a better course than Lakewood, and it would be more convenient. The non-golf facilities are very nice. Just a note of caution about cost: DC clubs run high. Our club which is nothing to write home about touts a Membership break for young people that knocks the initiation down to $40K or so.


As you might have guessed from our responses, DC is a great place to live but not because of the golf.


Ira

Jeff Ober

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2020, 01:58:10 PM »
Ira, thanks very much.  I will certainly look into Bethesda Country Club at your suggestion.  I don't believe I know anyone there at the moment but perhaps through my or my fiancee's professional connections we do. 


And yes, it certainly does seem like initiation runs high.  That's one of the reasons Lakewood remains attractive, despite the issues I noted above.  Currently only a few thousand for initiation now, then a little more at 36, then a little more at 46.  Tough to beat that deal.


Jeff Schley

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2020, 02:00:16 PM »
Jeff,


If you are open to being on the Maryland side of the River, I suggest adding Bethesda CC. Not at Congressional level, but I know that they were having a Membership drive last year which might be continuing. Most people think it is a better course than Lakewood, and it would be more convenient. The non-golf facilities are very nice. Just a note of caution about cost: DC clubs run high. Our club which is nothing to write home about touts a Membership break for young people that knocks the initiation down to $40K or so.


As you might have guessed from our responses, DC is a great place to live but not because of the golf.


Ira
The National Links Trust - making public DC golf great again (or can one not even utter the phrase without someone being offended in today's climate?)
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Jeff Ober

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2020, 02:41:52 PM »
I'm a huge fan/donor to National Links Trust--East Potomac was the first course I played when I moved to DC.  The public courses are great of course, it's just that (1) most of the really good ones are close to an hour away in Montgomery County; and (2) it's almost impossible to get a tee time less than a week in advance these days.  I rarely plan that far ahead. 

Jerry Kluger

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2020, 03:44:50 PM »
I believe Arthur Hills did the restoration work at Bethesda as he did at a number of other courses in the area including Woodmont, Manor and Belle Haven.  To me, much of the work that Hills did at these courses was very similar and kind of repetitive.  I think that joining a golf club is a lot more than how good is the course and how convenient is it to my home.  The question is what type of membership does it have and how much will I enjoy playing with those members.  I was a member at TPC Potomac many years ago and I never felt like I was a member of a club as there was so much unaccommpanied guest play.  A number of the top tier courses are known to be geared toward certain personal backgrounds which are not as strict as they used to be.  The group below the top tier like Westwood, Norbeck, Argyle, etc. are all really kind of down to earth courses with a friendly membership where you will fit in quite easily no matter your background.(BTW: Denny McCarthy on the PGA Tour grew up playing at Argyle and I think his family is still there.) As I ramble on another consideration should be how many members does the club have and how difficult is it to get a tee time at prime times on the weekends.  You must consider how difficult it will be to get to the club for you as well as your family as traffic can be outrageous and trying to get from Bethesda to Northern Virginia most afternoons can be a real hassle.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2020, 08:21:02 PM »
Forgive me gents but I find this thread to be hilarious. Where the heck is Barney when you need him?


Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jimmy Muratt

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2020, 08:40:51 PM »
Being from the DC area, I'd advise you to live in the area for a while before joining anywhere.   You'll meet more people and eventually get to play most of the courses so you can see what is really important to you and what clubs you enjoy.   In my opinion, and speaking from strictly a golf perspective, most of the private options mentioned aren't any better than the public courses in the area. 

Andy Shulman

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2020, 06:11:17 PM »
I'll be interested to hear what you decide, Jeff.  Just reading your own words, Lakewood sounds pretty uninspiring.  And, I agree that Fairfax CC's very odd layout should be off the list.  Maybe one more to consider - especially if $$$ are an issue - is Springfield CC.  While the location isn't ideal, the course is solid, there's a great membership culture and the amenities (clubhouse and fitness center) are up-to-date.

mike_beene

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2020, 11:45:30 PM »
I used to go sometimes to a club off Chain Bridge Road (I think) maybe in Vienna. Not too far south of Galleria. No idea what it is like now but seemed to be a walkable fun course and was in good shape.

Andy Shulman

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2020, 02:51:24 AM »
That's Westwood, which I suggested in an earlier post.  I agree with your description and have enjoyed playing a few rounds there, but it sounds like Jeff has already played it and feels it's not for him.

Tim Martin

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2020, 08:25:22 AM »
Jeff mentions “prestige” as an attribute of Congressional. Is that something people consider when evaluating a course/club?

Bernie Bell

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2020, 09:41:21 AM »
Jeff mentions “prestige” as an attribute of Congressional. Is that something people consider when evaluating a course/club?


I don't think most members are stroking checks for 100k or more to join the DC status clubs for the golf.  Some heavy hitters belong to a second club for their golf.  Not as many as before the '08 crash though.

Drew Maliniak

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2020, 10:08:05 AM »
If I could belong anywhere in the DC area, I would pick Gibson Island. Unbelievable place. Only 9 holes but so much fun.

David Wuthrich

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Re: Virginia/DC/Maryland Clubs?
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2020, 10:24:41 AM »
Jeff mentions “prestige” as an attribute of Congressional. Is that something people consider when evaluating a course/club?


Tim,  Of course they do!!  How do you think some of the clubs get the $$$$$ initiation fees that they do.  Some people just want a name.