[MCirba]

Here's one that's tough for me on the focus Paul R brought up

TCC - Brookline...

I played it in 1989 (all 27 member holes of all 3 nines) and 1995 ("the alleged Open layout") and except for 17 and 18 I still don't fully recognize where the historic tourneys were/are routed there.  Both visits were followed (as we all do) by absorbing the available materials on the Open reportage and even, in those immediate moments could not truly matchup where I had been/what hole that I had just played.


I read some recent articles on its reno=storation, and am even more confused.

V. Kmetz,


The history of the course iterations at Brookline are varied indeed and because I don't want my head to explode and because all 27 holes and the variations of those holes are used interchangeably I simply count it as 1 (one) 27 hole golf course even though I only played 18 of them as the only person on the course that day (other than my caddie) in a drenching downpour teeing off at 730am in a Francis Ouimettish 1913  third round deluge on whatever variant of 18 holes were assigned by the starter that day. 


Because I was already there and had the time before having to drive to Connecticut to take a ferry to Long Island later that afternoon, and because I'm golf course crazy I drippingly asked at the shop if they would mind if I walked the nine holes I didnt get to play that day and figuring it was probably easier than calling the crisis intervention line they gave me permission, so I walked those holes that include the final four we know from the US Open Routing before changing into some dry clothing and heading out to shaking heads sitting drinking fancy beverages on the veranda.

For the record, this would have been around 2010, and this is how I list it in my records;


 The Country Club (Brookline)
Brookline, MA                        27 7033     71             73.8    139
A.Hunnewell/L.Curtis/R Bacon 1893, W.Campbell 1894, A Campbell/G.H. Windeler 1899, G.H Windeler 1910, Wm.Flynn 1927, G.Cornish/Robinson 1960-1969,Rees Jones 1985,Gil Hanse 2010

 

[V. Kmetz]

For the record, this would have been around 2010, and this is how I list it in my records;
 The Country Club (Brookline)
Brookline, MA                        27 7033     71             73.8    139
A.Hunnewell/L.Curtis/R Bacon 1893, W.Campbell 1894, A Campbell/G.H. Windeler 1899, G.H Windeler 1910, Wm.Flynn 1927, G.Cornish/Robinson 1960-1969,Rees Jones 1985,Gil Hanse 2010

Both WoW and LoL to your entry record... WoW in that you bring it to such chronologically thorough detail, and LoL in that your entry ironically makes the "course" unassailable, because one is likely to end up contradicting themselves from a previous position on that architect... a deliciously edgy case of either:


A. "Victory has many fathers..."
or
B: "...a moral safehouse; where every one is guilty, so no one is to blame."

[MCirba]

Both WoW and LoL to your entry record... WoW in that you bring it to such chronologically thorough detail, and LoL in that your entry ironically makes the "course" unassailable, because one is likely to end up contradicting themselves from a previous position on that architect... a deliciously edgy case of either:


A. "Victory has many fathers..."
or
B: "...a moral safehouse; where every one is guilty, so no one is to blame."

I'm a big fan of corruption by inclusion, V. Kmetz.

[Lou_Duran]

Thanks, Edward, and framed that way I think I'd agree with you.

In other words, if I had played the original George Cobb course and then later played the Fazio iteration I'd likely see and count it as two different courses.   However, being anal and OCD, if I never played the former and only played the latter I'd note the Cobb routing and construction as part of the history of UNC Finley, particularly if original hole corridors remained in use.   


Thanks, Doug, and to your question of over 1000 courses played beyond myself and Tommy Williamsen mentioned here, I personally know...let's see... guess I can name names here since most are either current or former contributors on GCA but I know Mark Fine, Matt Ward, Cory Lewis, Bob Fagan, a few other Golfweek guys and there's a guy from my high school who's over 1,300, so although the total number worldwide is probably less than 100 it's become easier the past few decades with easier travel, more courses built (overbuilt?), and let's face it, the Internet to help one network and communicate among fellow obsessive madmen...er, golf course aficionados.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/a-regular-golfers-quest-to-play-americas-100-greatest-courses-in-one-year



Terry Inslee at north of 3k is the most prolific I know.  Met him once years ago by chance when we were paired for a round at Barton Creek- Fazio Canyons.  It was his second 18 of the day early in a month+long trip up from FL and north through the Midwest.  As I recall, he had planned to play 50+ courses during this trip, many for the first time.  As many golfers I've played with over the years, only Matt Ward surpassed his enthusiasm for the game.


I suspect that I've played over 1k courses, though I only have cards for 650 with scores and course information on a large Excel worksheet.  I have identified another 250+/- that I lack cards and details, and have memory gaps of the courses I played during my first 20 years in the game (never occurred to me that it would become important).


Unfortunately, I've lost much of my enthusiasm for seeking out new courses, becoming more of a homebody and playing locally.  Through various contacts I could probably complete most Top 100 lists, but I have grown weary of fishing for invitations.   That is not to say that I don't have several remaining in my bucket list, but if I never set foot on another Top X course, I am ok with that.  Maybe once the current gloom lifts, my attitude will change.


P.S.- over the years I've met a good number of people who claim to have played over 1k courses.  The 100 number sounds a little low. 

[MCirba]

You may be right, Lou.  Less than 200 is probably the sweet spot for this particular brand of insanity.

[Mark Saltzman]

You may be right, Lou.  Less than 200 is probably the sweet spot for this particular brand of insanity.

So I’m top 200 in the world in something. That’s exciting.

[Paul Rudovsky]

1.  Terry Inslee is well over 3000...would guess at least 3700 or so by now
2.  heard about one guy (from CA) who supposedly has played 4000+...but forget his name
3.  the guess of 150-200 at 1000+ sounds right to me but who knows
4. really interesting ?? is what about Ohoopee...I count it as 2 courses and the second course I list with just 4 holes (the other 14 are from the first)
5.  27 holes at a facility is a good question...and I always count it as two courses (an 18 holer and a 9 holer)...just like I count Royal Worlington and any other 9 hole course (as well as a 9, 10, or other # of holes par 3) as a course. 
6.  I have an excel schedule with a list of my 1262 courses played and for each course I list the number of holes.  Fair number of 19/20 hole courses today:
Forest Creek-South in NC,
Bright's Creek in NC,
Barnbougle Lost Farms (20 holes),
Kingston Heath,
Els Club in Malaysia,
Old Sandwich in MA,
Forest Dunes-Weiskopf in MI
Olde Farm in VA
European Club in Ireland (20)


My 1261 course encompass 22205 holes (an average of 17.61 holes/course).  Have played 33 "9-hole" courses (really <18 holes) consisting of:


9 stand alone nine holers (eg  Royal Worlington and Honesdale GC in PA...first course ever played)
19 9-holers as part of larger facility (eg Brookline, Ridgewood NJ, Shawnee Inn PA, St George's Hill)
5 par 3 courses (mostly 9 holes but some more) ANGC-9, Bandon Preserve-13, The Cradle-9, PVGC-10, Farmington in VA-10)


this excludes situations where I could not finish a course (lightning, ran out of daylight, time, energy, golf balls?)


7.  on the big I still think the footprint defines the course and I could plowed under/total rebuild situations (such as Desert Inn becoming Wynn Golf) as a single course for my list...as I don't know where to draw the line (if they plow under 16 holes and leave two)

[Paul Rudovsky]

Just rec'd an email from a good friend Down Under who asked how I would count playing TOC normally plus in reverse.  Outstanding and my answer is two courses...which is how I count Tom's Loop in MI (although one could certainly argue that both ways are on the same footprint).  Devil is ALWAYS in the details.

[Doug Bolls]

I played TOC both ways and count it as two courses.

[Tim Martin]

Like Paul I count the 27 hole facilities as two courses. One 18 hole and one nine. Some will count it as three but then you are claiming holes you have already played.

[JohnVDB]

i keep track of courses in 4 ways:
1) Played - 546
2) Officiated at - 242
3) USGA Course Rating - 141
4) Attended Tournament - 38
Overall unique total - 692 in 36 states and 18 countries

Back in the early 2000s, I got on a website (Golfweb?) that had a listing of courses by county and went through it for everywhere I could remember playing and recorded them all.  There is one course in Georgia that I played in 1986 that I've never identified.  It is a few miles south of Atlanta's airport. 

While playing a course once is great, spending multiple days at one setting up and officiating a tournament teaches you a lot more about the course.

[MCirba]

If we were to use the logic I'm now hearing related to reversible or flex courses then would Doak's version of Sheep Ranch be some exponential multiple of 13 golf courses?

[Mark_Fine]

I track all the courses I have played over the years and am anal but not that anal to double count (or not count) the ones that have been restored or renovated since I first played them.  However, if a course is completely changed - I guess changing of the course name would be what would do it for me as I keep all my scorecards and notes and as a result it would fall in a new folder so be tracked as a new course. 


I have played golf with Terry Inslee at his home club Black Diamond in FL.  Great guy and fun to play and exchange stories with.  I joked with him that the number of different courses he has played is crazy but I said I was a lot younger than him and his lead wasn't big enough    The pandemic has slowed things down for most of us and I guess for Terry as well.  Let's hope that changes in 2021 or at least in 2022. 


By the way, I have always counted 27 hole clubs like for example Ridgewood CC as just one course.  I guess you could call it 18 holes and 9 holes but again I am anal but not that anal 

[MCirba]

Yes. agreed Mark. 


If a 27 hole course like Ridgewood or Shawnee or TCC Brookline has 3 interchangeable nines, two of which are utilized on any given day to make up an 18 hole round that to me is simply 1 (one) golf course of 27 holes.


I've played 32 twenty-seven hole golf courses to date.

[Paul Rudovsky]

By the way, I have always counted 27 hole clubs like for example Ridgewood CC as just one course.  I guess you could call it 18 holes and 9 holes but again I am anal but not that anal 


Mark--  Assume you count (or would count) WF East and West (and likewise with LACC, Baltusrol, Oakland Hills, RMGC, Sunningdale, etc.) as two separate courses played, correct?  And Old, New, Eden, Jubilee, etc. at St Andrews as separate courses as well.

[Mark_Fine]

Paul,
Yes.  If there are two distinct 18 hole courses at a property I would count them as two.  Same if there is three or four,...  as long as they are differently named courses.  But I also would count 13 hole courses like The Preserve at Bandon.  I would also count 9 or 18 hole par three courses.  Just the 27 hole courses with no distinct 18 that I count as one. 

[MCirba]

Paul,

My methodology is the same as Mark's, thanks.

[Cory Lewis]

So he's an interesting question for you guys.  Is it possible to count consecutively from 6 to 22?  I've played golf courses with 6,7,9,10,12,13,17,18,19,20,21, and 22 holes.  I know there is an 8 hole course in Ohio and and an 11 hole course in California but I wonder if courses with 14, 15, and 16 holes exist?  There used to be a course here in NC with 15 holes because it lost three to the highway but it closed before I could play it.

[MCirba]

I think I have a 14 for you, Cory.


Will check tomorrow.

[Doug Bolls]

Trump National in SoCal started out as Ocean Trails - Pete Dye designed - #18 fell into the ocean due to a landslide just before it opened.  It played as a 15 hole course until it went bankrupt.  I played it a couple of times under those conditions.
I've read that rebuilding #18 makes it the most expensive course ever built - something well over $200 million if I remember correctly.

[MCirba]

So he's an interesting question for you guys.  Is it possible to count consecutively from 6 to 22?  I've played golf courses with 6,7,9,10,12,13,17,18,19,20,21, and 22 holes.  I know there is an 8 hole course in Ohio and and an 11 hole course in California but I wonder if courses with 14, 15, and 16 holes exist?  There used to be a course here in NC with 15 holes because it lost three to the highway but it closed before I could play it.

Cory,

The one course I was thinking of is called Rolling Turf in eastern PA which was 12 holes when I played it years back and remains so.

The other course I was thinking of was called Pennsburg GC when I played it about 20 or so years back and had 14 holes.   Sadly for our purposes, it has since been purchased, renamed to Sweet Water GC, and reduced to 9 holes.

[David Wuthrich]

Just saw Terry at Streamsong and he is still going strong.

[Brad Tufts]

I'm up to about 900 or so, with 1000 in my sights in a few years.


This year, I played about 20 different golf courses, but only one new-to-me, the 9-hole Houlton Community Golf Course in Northern Maine, architect unknown!  I played my home course more than ever, maybe 75 rounds.


Houlton actually had a short par four that was amazing...I may start a thread on this hole if I get bored enough.  It was about 260y to a green elevated maybe 25-30 feet, angled away from the fairway left-to-right, with an upper fairway right of the green sloped towards the tee...with OB perpendicular to the line of play, paces off the upper fairway and green.  Drivable for sure, but uphill 30' to an non-receptive green with OB long.  The green also slopes HARD left to right toward the upper fairway, with an elevated back tier where the pin was located. 


Makes you wonder how many relatively bland courses have one amazing hole like that!

[MCirba]

This year, I played about 20 different golf courses, but only one new-to-me, the 9-hole Houlton Community Golf Course in Northern Maine, architect unknown!  I played my home course more than ever, maybe 75 rounds.


Houlton actually had a short par four that was amazing...I may start a thread on this hole if I get bored enough.  It was about 260y to a green elevated maybe 25-30 feet, angled away from the fairway left-to-right, with an upper fairway right of the green sloped towards the tee...with OB perpendicular to the line of play, paces off the upper fairway and green.  Drivable for sure, but uphill 30' to an non-receptive green with OB long.  The green also slopes HARD left to right toward the upper fairway, with an elevated back tier where the pin was located. 


Makes you wonder how many relatively bland courses have one amazing hole like that!

Brad,

I've been able to learn that Houlton was the former "Houlton Country Club", that later was called "Lake Side" and was designed/opened in 1923 by a "Mr. Stinson of St. Andrews N.B", which I assume is New Brunswick, Canada and likely affiliated with the Algonquin Hotel and golf course (circa 1894).   I'll see if I can't come up with his first name, as the Stinson family seems to have been affiliated with the hotel for a number of years.   

***EDIT*** Scratch that, Brad Tufts.   Mr Stinson was the gardener at the Algonquin who was left behind to supervise construction and grow-in.

The actual architect of the Houlton Country Club was one Mr. John Peacock, long-time professional of the Algonquin Hotel in St. Andrews, New Brunswick.

[Doug Bolls]

If a course has been re-routed or has changed the configuration of holes (ie: par 3 changed to a par 4 or par 4 shortened to a par3, etc) - I count it as a new course on my list.


Something a simple as flipping 9's or updating greens, bunkers etc doesn't count in my book.

My Bad - Please ignore

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