Overton Park (Memphis) | King-Collins Renovation 9-Hole

[Drew Maliniak]

King-Collins appears to be tapped for a $2 million dollar renovation of Overton Park in Memphis, TN.


Background: Overton is like the Central Park of Memphis.


Course stretches to just over 2,200 yards (8 par 4s and one par 3). K-C is planning to put in 3 bunkers and take the greens from 1,500 square feet to over 4,500 with some serious internal contouring.


Local juniors cut their teeth in the Overton Park Open. Love the idea of the Himalayas putting green that is juniors only.


The Overton Park conservancy board played Sweetens Cove. Liked what they saw.


Overview: 


https://dailymemphian.com/article/18330/conservancy-proposes-major-renovation-to-overton


Hole by Hole:


https://dailymemphian.com/section/neighborhoodsmidtown/article/18345/hole-by-hole-overton-park-golf-course-renovation


Course map:


https://twitter.com/par4parks

[Carl Rogers]

Wow, grew up in Memphis and played there in elementary school.  Is the 2nd hole still a par 3 requiring a shot over trees?  Hole 6 required threading a tee shot through  a stand  of large  red oaks.  Never thought the city would spend a nickel on it.

[Drew Maliniak]

Yes. King called the tee shot on the second hole a "hitting down a hallway." So they plan to widen the hole and move the green. 



According to the articles, they want to make it free for junior golfers under 15. I think it's part of an idea to make Overton Park attractive again since so many people drive by the course. Hopefully, Ford Canale on the City council can push them to approve the Conservancy's plan. He loves golf. I think it's the non-profit Conservancy that raised the money, so not the City.

[Mike Hendren]

Overton Park is an iconic course that has introduced countless kids to the game. Perhaps the new design will introduce them to the joy of 5 jacking from 60 feet  and save them from a lifetime of frustration playing a silly game.


Current fees are $7 for 9 holes. $0 for juniors and $4 for seniors.

I’d be curious how many rounds are played there annually.



Bogey

[Drew Maliniak]

More details on the renovation:

https://golf.com/travel/rob-collins-overton-park-muni-mondays/

Enjoy the discussion around incorporating the "Park" elements with runners, joggers, bird watchers.


Other points: it appears that the "hallway" tee shot on 2 is not going away. They're turning that into a Redan. Also they're adding a punch bowl. 





Side note:


At Springdale GC on campus in Princeton, we always had students walking through the course; the cross country team using the perimeter as a course too; and folks just generally milling about at the dorms, which could be seen (and driven into) off 16 tee.


Love to see more courses integrated into their surroundings in a "mixed use" fashion. But obviously, a public park and open University are unique.

__________
Looking at Overton Park’s proposed yardage is fascinating; you’ve got a lot of half-par holes, par-3.5s. Tell me about those.

Collins: Well, there are a bunch of shortish par-4s. The way you deal with those is just by making them really interesting on approach and recovery. It all comes down to the greens and making nine interesting complexes. We’re going to have to err on the more understated side of things for this project; for anyone who has seen Sweetens Cove, it would be a mistake to go in and build nine Sweetens Cove greens, that’s not what we’re going to try to do. It’ll be more understated, which means it’s a chance for us to do something a little different while still making you think.

[Jason Thurman]

You can play around on Google Street View and get a pretty good look at the second hole. I would recommend taking a look to anyone who loves one-of-a-kind, strange holes.

[Don Mahaffey]

In 2011, Kelly Blake Moran and I made several trips to Memphis to study renovating/upgrading the city's municipal courses, including Overton park.  A local business man was connected to the city admin and had a plan to upgrade all the properties, including the ones on the "bad" side of town. I remember leaning about all the great players that had learned the game at Overton. Unfortunately after many meetings and planning sessions, it all fell through. Hopefully something happens this time.

[John_Cullum]

Is $2,000,000 the going rate for renovating 9 holes these days?

[Drew Maliniak]

Like with Harding Park, I understand that a decent chunk of the money is going to upgrading the 100 year old clubhouse and trying to make it an event space (remember the Zoo and Art Galleries are right there too). 

It appears that the city council approved it. So they start this month. Again the money is all coming from the private non-profit Conservancy.

So no city dollars but definitely not cheap.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/2020/12/01/memphis-overton-park-golf-course-renovation/6476434002/

[Mike Hendren]

In 2011, Kelly Blake Moran and I made several trips to Memphis to study renovating/upgrading the city's municipal courses, including Overton park.  A local business man was connected to the city admin and had a plan to upgrade all the properties, including the ones on the "bad" side of town. I remember leaning about all the great players that had learned the game at Overton. Unfortunately after many meetings and planning sessions, it all fell through. Hopefully something happens this time.

Don, in support of your memory of Overton Park's history, I'll share the following which are excerpts from Gene Pearce's outstanding book The History of Tennessee Golf:


By 1912 Overton Park had one of the first municipal golf courses in the country.  W. C. Sherwood of Memphis Country Club (Donald J. Ross – 1910), laid out the little nine hole course in collaboration with C. W. Davis.

According to Pearce: 
Overton Park was one of the nation’s first public golf courses and has unquestionably had more to do with furthering the cause of golf in Memphis, and perhaps Tennessee, than any other course.  This little patch of green earth in Midtown Memphis can lay claim to having been the birthplace of golf careers for seven future Masters participants.  Overton Park is where  practically all Memphis golfers start.


Those seven golfers include Dub Fondren, Cary Midddlecoff, Tubby  Moore, Hillman Robbins, Jr., Buck White, Orville White, Tim Jackson (mid-amateur).

Pearce writes:
Dub Fondren and his brother Jake are two of the many legends of early golf in Memphis who learned the game and caddied at Overton Park. Dub's first job was club manger in 1935 at Augusta Country Club.  Gene Sarazan once commented that Dub was the best iron player he ever saw.   Jake Fondren was born in Memphis in 1911 and turned professional at the age of seventeen.  Jake would go on to win tournaments in eight different decades. He made the first of 16 holes-in-one at Overton Park’s 2^nd and sixty years later aced the 2^nd again.  Jake and Buck White defeated Ralph Guldahl and Sam Snead 3 and 1 at a exhibition held at Memphis Country Club in 1940.  Jake set the competitive course record of 26 – eight under par at Overton Park in 1931 that still stands.  He recalled “ I missed a five foot putt for birdie on the first hole, then birdied the next eight.  On the ninth hole, I hit a big tree, then took a five-iron and sliced around the tree.  I was ten feet over the green.  About five hundred people were out there because it was an exhibition and they were telling me to chip it in for a birdie, and darned if I didn’t.”



The little stone clubhouse is as legendary as the course.  I trust its character will be maintained. 


I need to get down there this month before they start moving dirt. 


Mike

[Tim Gavrich]

Is $2,000,000 the going rate for renovating 9 holes these days?

FWIW, the Riley Johns/Keith Rhebb renovation of the similar-sized Winter Park GC in Orlando cost $1.2 million. Will be interesting to compare the two when Overton Park is done.


Quite a tree-gate on that second hole!

[Drew Maliniak]

Yet another article about Overton Park: More on the nostalgia side. 


https://dailymemphian.com/section/opinion/article/18376/dan-conaway-opinion-overton-park-golf-course

[Drew Maliniak]

Podcast on the Overton Park Renovation. Quite good.

Same person who wrote the long-form Landmand article.
https://www.lyingfour.com/conversations-blog/2021/4/20/podcast-episode-002-a-walk-in-the-park

[Steve_Roths]

Has anyone played the updated course?  Worth a visit?

Thanks.

[Drew Maliniak]

I played in late August. I would give it a 6-7 on the Doak scale and would play if happen to be in town. Other than Memphis CC and Colonial South, I would say the best in Memphis. (I still have a penchant for Orgill Park though as an untouched Press Maxwell.)


Greens are excellent (and played firm in August), good strategic interest, very fun.

[Tom_Doak]

I played in late August. I would give it a 6-7 on the Doak scale and would play if happen to be in town. Other than Memphis CC and Colonial South, I would say the best in Memphis. (I still have a penchant for Orgill Park though as an untouched Press Maxwell.)


Greens are excellent (and played firm in August), good strategic interest, very fun.

It's good to hear the project turned out well.


I have never seen or rated any golf courses in Memphis.  However, I have never read anything to make me suspect that Memphis CC or Colonial South would be rated a 6 or 7 on the Doak Scale, so your number for Overton Park is probably high, as well.  A better comparison might be Audubon Park in New Orleans, which I liked a lot, but didn't rate on par with the best courses in the U.S.A.

[Drew Maliniak]

It's your scale, so defer to you.


It's probably a fair comparison to Audubon in New Orleans.


Memphis CC is a classic Ross and held the U.S. Amateur a long time ago. I'd put on a similar level to Camargo.


Colonial South has a pretty great set of greens and land movement.

[Tom_Doak]

It's your scale, so defer to you.

Memphis CC is a classic Ross and held the U.S. Amateur a long time ago. I'd put on a similar level to Camargo.

Colonial South has a pretty great set of greens and land movement.

That's certainly the first time I"ve heard Memphis CC compared to Camargo; honestly about the first time I've heard anyone mention it as outstanding.  Has someone recently restored it or is it mostly untouched Ross? 


My radar is pretty strong, but good courses do slip through the cracks.  Curious if anyone else has been there and wants to weigh in.

[JMEvensky]

It's your scale, so defer to you.

Memphis CC is a classic Ross and held the U.S. Amateur a long time ago. I'd put on a similar level to Camargo.

Colonial South has a pretty great set of greens and land movement.

That's certainly the first time I"ve heard Memphis CC compared to Camargo; honestly about the first time I've heard anyone mention it as outstanding.  Has someone recently restored it or is it mostly untouched Ross? 


My radar is pretty strong, but good courses do slip through the cracks.  Curious if anyone else has been there and wants to weigh in.

The only similarity between Memphis CC and Camargo is the number of holes. Memphis is a very nice members' golf course--not remotely the course Camargo is.


Kris Spence has done a lot of very nice work at Memphis CC over the last 15(?) years--greens, bunkers, tees. He posts here on occasion and will hopefully see this.

[Drew Maliniak]

I think the volcano No. 4 at MCC and the short no. 11 at Camargo are quite similar. I could try to go on.


Generally, all the par 3s ask similar questions to Camargo in my opinion (other than Camargo’s redan).


When I approach rounds at Memphis and Camargo, I feel like I am being asked similar questions: Can I take advantage of the scoreable par 5s? Can I generally survive the par 3s? Can I be patient on the par 4s?


While property size is massively different with Memphis at 100 acres, I think the old school club vibe is pretty similar.


Overall, to bring it back, I like the new Overton because it provides access to Golden Age style golf for less than a movie ticket. I like that every hole is half par, which teaches aspiring players to learn to score. I like the juxtaposition of a few tiny greens to massive funnel greens.